Do +1/+1 counters cancel out -1/-1 counters?
Asked by Ostrichman01 8 years ago
I was just curious if a creature with persist and undying could come back from the graveyard infinitely.
ex. Blasting Station+Kitchen Finks+Undying Evil= infinite damage and infinite life gain?
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
The reason a creature with both Undying and Persist can repeatedly return from the graveyard isn't because +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out. It's because only one of those abilities can return the creature each time. When it's returned by Undying it will have a +1/+1 counter. This means that when it dies again it will get returned by Persist with a -1/-1 counter. Then when it dies yet again it will get returned by Undying, and so on and so forth.
April 6, 2016 11:13 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
Note that if the creature has a +1/+1 counter on it, making its toughness 1 (ie Marath, Will of the Wild with 1 counter on him), and a -1/-1 counter is placed on it, the creature will die as a state based action with both counters on it.
This is because canceling counters is also a state based action, and one doesn't happen before the other.
When the creature dies, undying and persist check the last know info of the creature for their respective counters. Since it died with both, it sees that and neither ability will trigger.
Boza says... #1
The two counters do cancel each other out.
A creature with persist and undying will return back from the graveyard indefinitely, if you have the means to sac it everytime and the means to give it persist/undying every time.
In your example, in order for that to work, you need to substitute Undying Evil with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. A creature that enters the battlefield will be a new iteration, unrelated to the kitchen finks that had undying.
April 6, 2016 8:40 a.m.