Can flashing a Restoration Angel into play save another creature from board wipes?
Asked by DarthTrevyn 11 years ago
The basic example is:
Player one: casts Cyclonic Rift overloaded.
Player two: casts Restoration Angel to blink out another creature.
What actually happens? Do the [restoration angel]] and other creature get thrown back into Player two's hand or do they stick on the field?
Does the same thing happen if Supreme Verdict was cast instead of Cyclonic Rift ?
I am aware if the "First in, Last out" rule. However it was questioned in a casual game at a local shop. Without a judge around it was hard to agree on the outcome.
It doesn't have to do with targeting, it's how it resolves.
Player A: Casts Supreme Verdict which goes on the stack.
Player B: In response casts Restoration Angel which goes above Supreme Verdict on the stack.
Player A&B both pass priority and Restoration Angel resolves triggers and so forth.
Player A&B both pass priority and Supreme Verdict resolves killing everything.
June 9, 2013 2:27 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #3
That resolves exactly the same way as if you were using a kill spell, except that board wipe doesn't fizzle -- since it isn't targeting.
June 9, 2013 2:32 a.m.
I guess I should say it doesn't have to do with targeting per say, so much as it is that the angel and it's flicker will always happen before the sweeper resolves.
Basically, use Restoration Angel in response to targeted removal, not sweepers.
June 9, 2013 2:33 a.m.
DarthTrevyn says... #5
That's what I was thinking... I just wanted to be sure. Thanks for the info!
June 9, 2013 3:02 a.m.
This cannot be correct!
spells and abilities doesnt continuesly check for targets. They only check for target when you target and when it resolves. Flickering a card with Restoration Angel doesnt change the card. and it doesnt save the creature.
Scenario:
Opponent targets your Birds of Paradise with a Lightning Bolt.You Flash in your Restoration Angel in response to bounce your Birds of Paradise hoping to save it fron the Lightning Bolt.
So lets look at the stack in the order it will resolve(keep in mind all targeting exept restoration angel is allready done):
Restoration Angel resolves and exiles Birds of Paradise wich imediatly returns to the battlefield.
Lightning Bolt resolves and checks for its target(Birds of Paradise) wich is still there when it checks. So it kills the Birds of Paradise
This must be the correct way to judge this scenario. People seem to think that the creature exiled with Restoration Angel is a new card when it returns, it is not! The card specifically says: "then return that card to the battlefield under your control". And spells dont continouesly check for targets. They only check when you target and when they resolve.
December 13, 2014 6:09 a.m.
Staro if a card changes game zones it becomes an entirely new object. So in your example the Birds of Paradise would be saved since they're a new object and Lightning Bolt's target, the "old" Birds, isn't there anymore from a rules standpoint. It's like you used Vapor Snag or something like that in response to Bolt. Then the Birds wouldn't die because they're not on battlefield anymore. The same applies in the Restoration Angel example since the target of Lightning Bolt isn't on the battlefield anymore from a rules standpoint.
December 13, 2014 6:43 a.m.
From the Comprehendove Rules:
400.7: An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, it's previous existence.
December 13, 2014 6:48 a.m.
but that rule has seven exeptions...
400.7g A resolving spell or activated ability can perform actions on an object that moved from one zone to another while that spell was being cast or that ability was being activated, if that object moved to a public zone.
wouldnt this apply here? Because the bolt is on the bottom of the stack, hence it is still being casted.
December 13, 2014 8:21 a.m.
Just to make sure im posting the whole rule
400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are seven exceptions to this rule: #
400.7a Effects from spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities that change the characteristics of a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to the permanent that spell becomes. #
400.7b Prevention effects that apply to damage from a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to damage from the permanent that spell becomes. #
400.7c If an ability of a permanent requires information about choices made as that permanent was cast as a spell, including what mana was spent to cast that spell, it uses information about the spell that became that permanent as it resolved. #
400.7d Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield) can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone. #
400.7e Abilities of Auras that trigger when the enchanted permanent leaves the battlefield can find the new object that Aura became in its owners graveyard if it was put into that graveyard at the same time the enchanted permanent left the battlefield. It can also find the new object that Aura became in its owners graveyard as a result of being put there as a state-based action for not being attached to a permanent. (See rule 704.5n.) #
400.7f If an effect grants a nonland card an ability that allows it to be cast, that ability will continue to apply to the new object that card became after it moved to the stack as a result of being cast this way. #
400.7g A resolving spell or activated ability can perform actions on an object that moved from one zone to another while that spell was being cast or that ability was being activated, if that object moved to a public zone. #
December 13, 2014 8:26 a.m.
Staro I'm pretty sure that a spell on the stack doesn't count as being cast anymore. I'm not entirely sure about this though. I'll tag Epochalyptik he'll know the answer.
December 14, 2014 5:10 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
@Staro: This thread is a year and a half old. If you're going to necro a Q&A thread (you shouldn't), please be absolutely certain that whatever you're posting is correct.
You're misinterpreting 400.7g. A spell is considered cast when the casting process is complete (the casting process ends after costs are paid). After that, it's just an object on the stack. 400.7g only applies to objects that change zones during the casting/activating process. It doesn't apply to objects that change zones after either process ends.
When an object changes zones, the game treats it as an entirely new object. The Birds of Paradise that enters the battlefield during Restoration Angel's ability's resolution may be the same physical card that left, but it is not the same object. Because Lightning Bolt is targeting the original instance of Birds of Paradise, it will fizzle because its target is no longer legal at the time Lightning Bolt would resolve.
PasorofMuppets says... #1
Restoration Angel saves creatures when they're being targeted by something, because once they've been blinked out they're no longer the same creature and so the spell fizzles. Board wipes don't target, so all you'd be doing is throwing your Restoration Angel away.
June 9, 2013 2:24 a.m.