Standard Esper
General forum
Posted on Nov. 2, 2013, 11:39 a.m. by Smaug1007
It seems like esper decks now are the exact same. RtR block has Obzedat, Blood Baron and Aetherling, as well as some removal such as supreme verdict or detention sphere. Theros has Ashiok elspeth and some scry lands as well as heroes downfall and more removal. Am I the only person here noticing the lack of creativity in Esper?
Wizard of the Damned says... #3
Creativity in esper? How about creativity in deck building in general? If it's possible to name a complete deck list just from what my opponent tells me he's playing then that's sad (either for me or for them but who gives a damn). Between the Ravnica block and Theros, a plethora of decks should be floating the meta but no, EVERYONE plays the same thing. Copy-paste all decks. Keep in mind some decks will be build the same (looking at modern and legacy, sometimes things aren't better than what is used) but in standard, there is no creativity. It's a color-by-numbers game. The Wizard Condemn s all net decks and a Supreme Verdict shall be issued across the land that all violators shall be placed in a Phyrexian Arena and forced to use Trusty Machete s to duel to the death.
November 2, 2013 12:45 p.m.
zeebakagee says... #4
I don't know about creativity, but you can do a lot with Esper. Mine is basically a life gain/drain with blue so I can run counters. Yeah, I have your standard Jace Architect and Aetherlings, as well as a playset of Verdicts, but I don't run D-Sphere, Syncopate, all those. Just lots of Renders, Dissolves, all that. I only run one Sphinx's Rev. I do run two Ashioks, only because it gets me field presence. I actually don't care much for Elspeth. If I did run her, it would just be a contingency plan for late game, because the way my deck runs, I would have sapped my opponents life with Obzedat/Whip/Debt to the Deathless long before Elspeth could get in a good raping.
November 2, 2013 4:22 p.m.
inb4 "creativity vs. competitiveness" argument
The decks you see posted on Top 8 lists are highly competitive. The decks you won't see on front pages are the creative ones.
If you want to make a good deck in Legacy, get creative. If you want to make a good deck in Standard, get good cards.
/thread
November 2, 2013 5:04 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #6
welcome to the world of competitive Magic. See the 2010 worlds where every...one...played...the same...U/B...control deck...in the top 8 except for 2 people
November 2, 2013 5:08 p.m.
So I've been developing my esper deck for over a month and am still playtesting a lot to find the best version, resisting the urge to grab the "net decks" that did well. The fact that one resembles those doesn't mean I wasn't creative, it means I had a good sense on how to make the deck. I didn't play esper before the rotation, but am now. I'm actually leaning towards going back to my earlier version, which is less similar to the net deck (it wins by mill). We can certainly discuss why I'm leaning this way (the current version struggles with hand disruption against B/W and B/W/G, the mill version is more flexible and resilient to that disruption with a more focused win-con.
My current esper deck: Heisenberg
The mill version: Heisenberg mill version 11-1-13
You want to discuss creativity? Please do, i have two esper decks that I'm weighing against the other to make one that is the most competitive. I'm not ready to say screw it and play a net deck yet. Being creative takes a lot of thought and playtesting. So... check out my decks and help me get creative.
November 2, 2013 5:42 p.m.
Well, one thing about net-decking. Not everybody does it. As there are many netdeckers out there, there are also people who enjoy building a deck from scratch or, in my case, from a pre-release or draft. Netdecking will always be a thing, best not complain to much and enjoy your homebrews
November 2, 2013 6:02 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #9
Aye I could not agree with my fellow wizard Apoptosis more. Any deck created is almost always reminiscent of an older deck or archetype that hath not been played in a fortnight. Even when The Wizard crafted his t1000 spell book, it looked similar to all U/B control played at the time but was distinctively different. I even did well with it when I played (4-0 twice and 3-1 twice)
November 2, 2013 6:14 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #10
I will say this, although I'm more of a Modern player it seems to me that it's much harder to be creative in Standard for 2 reasons: 1) there are less options available and 2) the meta determines everything. Before anyone crucifies me for saying the meta doesn't determine everything in Modern, in the pro tours set in the Modern format the decks are not as clearly net decked, just watch any pro tour that is a Modern build...a lot of it is control too so the "turn 4" thing becomes moot at pro tour status
November 2, 2013 6:36 p.m.
detentionsphere says... #11
Sigh... the complaints about "lack of creativity" and how "netdecking is horrible and everyone who does it should stop playing Magic" are really getting old.
Look, there are a few types of players in Magic. There is the subset who love being creative and expressing their ideas in decks, even if that means losing all the time.
And there is the subset who enjoy being competitive, and the best way to be competitive, unless you are an amazing brewer like Sam Black or Conley Woods or whatever, is to play a proven deck.
Both of these views are fine, and the people in the "creativity" subset need to stop complaining about the netdecking subset. Not everyone is the same.
November 3, 2013 2:08 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #12
@detentionsphere I think the real issue here is that Standard is just what the name implies: decks are standardized. In Standard there is definitely a proven winner, and that changes from set to set. True, you will see the meta change every PT and GP, because of people like Conley Woods, but ultimately that's what this all comes down to. The people that net deck are looking to win games. And in the PT net decking shows you what you're up against and what is doing well. Competitive magic is not about creativity. That's like asking an NFL team to stop running/throwing the ball because every other team does it.
November 3, 2013 2:22 a.m.
"Competitive magic is not about creativity."
False. If this were true, how would new decks ever come to the forefront of a format? I take it you've never played Legacy. You can get really creative and still remain fairly competitive.
November 3, 2013 3:15 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #14
I should have clarified, Standard magic is not about creativity, it's about winning, and no I've never played Legacy, but I'm sure it is a lot more creative for 1 reason: there are more options than Standard
November 3, 2013 3:18 p.m.
"Restrictions actually breed creative thought" -Mark Rosewater, Head Designer for Magic
November 3, 2013 3:24 p.m.
My views on being Creative Vs. Copying a deck is to make your own deck first, and then switch out a few things after seeing a professional version of your deck if it is similar. Let's say you make a 3 color control deck. There is probably a similar pro deck that is the same 3 colors, and is control. You can look at that and switch a few things but it is still your deck. I've done that with a few of my decks and not only does it make them more powerful but I also feel good because I brewed it myself, but threw in some professional seasoning :)
November 3, 2013 4:25 p.m.
So I can understand "butchering" up your deck to make it yours what I dont understand is why 1. Obzedat and Aetherlings are the only cards that win games.2. You have to run board wipe and control to do welland 3. In order for a deck to be good it has to be at least $500Thanks for all the comments thus far, its great to know that im not the only one that doesnt appreciate the lack of creativity.
November 3, 2013 4:31 p.m.
AEtherling is used so commonly because it has so many options to fit so many settings. Need to block a huge creature? Give it 9 toughness. Need to get in for 8? Make it unblockable and pump 4 times. Afraid of someone Doom Blade your guy? Exile him and bring him back under your control at the beginning of next end step. It's a perfect card for control.
You can exile, then Supreme Verdict leaving your creature the only one on the board. It's beautiful. It's one of a million powerful combinations though. I agree Smaug1007 that people need to experiment more, but it's a proven combo that works very well.
November 3, 2013 5:11 p.m.
What's that? You want a creative Esper deck that can not only survive, but thrive in a competitive environment? Tadaaaa!
deck-large:get-down-its-gonna-blow-1st-at-fnm
raithe000 says... #2
So far, Theros/rotation hasn't really shaken up Esper. While a number of things were lost, there haven't been a lot of powerful additions from Theros, and the archetype has settled more than most other archetypes. There currently isn't much to mess around with, so that's why all the decks look the same. At least, that's my sense of it.
November 2, 2013 11:42 a.m.