Math on Shuffling
General forum
Posted on Aug. 24, 2012, 11:02 a.m. by snotskie
Hey all!
I have been running some simulations of mash/riffle shuffles on my computer. A total of 9000 shuffles were run each trial, on a 60 card deck, assuming that the largest run was 4 (when you riffle shuffle, a run is when a lot of cards stay next to each other).
Using these numbers I came up with the following conclusions:
(1) Bias (where a card tends to stay in particular areas) heavily exists up to 6 shuffles.
(2) Bias begins to fade after 7 shuffles.
(3) Bias is insignificant after 9 shuffles.
Using these numbers, I keep track of the amount that my opponents shuffle, always giving it a few more riffles when I'm ask to cut so that at least 7 riffles had been applied. For my own deck, I do the following: overhand, 4 riffles, overhand, 4 riffles, overhand. The overhands are in there simply to keep cards from sticking together.
What are your thoughts on shuffling?
I only shuffle their decks before the game starts, mainly so that we're both playing with random distribution (I'd hate to see them end up mana screwed due to poor shuffling, as winning a game that way isn't all that fun).
During the game, I'll cut a little bit and move like the second or third card from the top to the bottom or something, just for good luck.
I wish I could upload files on here, cause I have this really nice HTML/Javascript page that generates grids for where the first card of the deck tended to move to, starting at 1 shuffle all the way up to 15. It even highlights the larger numbers, so you really can visualize the distribution changing as you shuffle more.
I'll see if I can post it somewhere and add a link or something.
August 24, 2012 12:05 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
What I've read before is that 5 good riffle shuffles gives decent randomization, and 7 gives a deck that can really be considered random, but I think that might just be for 52-card decks, and I don't know how the math would change for 60 cards.
I usually riffle shuffle 4-5 times before starting a game, but I also usually do the same after a game ends, so I'm probably good there. After an opponent searches a deck, as long as they do 3-4 shuffles before passing the deck to me I'm fine with it, as you have to be either a serious cardsharp or a trained magician to retain any useful information after that.
August 24, 2012 12:09 p.m.
Still, it's always been my understanding that actually shuffling your opponent's deck is rude and in bad form. And I've never wanted to be That Guy, so I don't. I doubt that the players at my local card shop are trying to stack their decks in that way.
Pre-game, I usually deal the cards into stacks (that are not a factor of the number of cards in the deck) and then mash/riffle alternating stacks together until I have one stack again. And then I usually give it 4-6 more mashes/riffles. I go with 6 stacks for a 40 card deck, 7 for 60, and 8 for 100.
August 24, 2012 12:22 p.m.
On a loosely related note, I read somewhere that you should try to keep all of your arts the same if possible, as it makes it harder for an opponent to, say, memorize your hand after a Duress .
What are your feelings on this?
I honestly think that if they really want to memorize it, they will write it down (which, btw, actually happened to me at FNM once).
August 24, 2012 12:49 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
FYI, at Competitive and Professional level events, you're required to shuffle your opponent's deck when he presents it. However, most FNMs, drafts, prereleases, etc. are just Regular level events, where a simple cut is fine.
If your opponent wants to keep tabs on your hand, he'll just use notes if he's not stupid, since taking notes like that during a game is allowed. The way I see it, it could probably go either way with art. If I play Standard, I prefer to play with older versions of cards where I can, because if the opponent is only able to readily recognize the most recent printing at a glance, then it'll mess with him a bit when he has to stop and read to figure out what something is.
August 24, 2012 1:27 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #9
I really find that writing down the cards in the opponent's hand after seeing them shouldn't be allowed ._.
As far as shuffling, I either mana shuffle before a tournament to avoid clumps of lands, then when the match begins shuffle the deck regularly. After that I cut a small piece then a bigger piece, small stack on bottom then put the stack on top of the original pile.
@jminute14: Yeah that's kind of annoying. When you need to do that to "guarantee" no one is cheating it just shows you are being paranoid over a game.
August 24, 2012 1:30 p.m.
I largely prefer to start with one pile shuffle (10 piles), followed by at least 5 riffles but usually more as time allows. There are lots of articles on shuffling, and here are two of my favorites:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/3927_A_Tournament_Guide_To_Shuffling_Your_Deck.html
and
August 24, 2012 1:39 p.m.
cooknathan says... #11
I dont like people shuffling my deck mostly due to them not shuffling properly and potentially damaging my cards or when they shuffle such that some cards are upside down >:-(. Another thing is when people riffle shuffle on the table and lift up the edges to see what is in the deck (has happened to a friend of mine). Hence I dont mind them shuffling so long as they know how to lol.
Although competitively it is probably important to shuffle your opponents deck as it is pretty easy to put key cards close to each other such that you will draw combo pieces in the same hand for example. Also its not hard to shuffle a key card to the top of your library or close to halfway so I might say splitting a deck is also important but equally important to randomize how you split the deck (not always just straight in half).
Yeah competitive players will often use the same art even on the lands. It doesnt come up often but it has the potential to be game changing.
August 24, 2012 1:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
Shuffling your opponent's deck is not rude or in bad form unless you're bending the cards. I usually do a few mash shuffles because riffling presents the opportunity to put bend wear on the cards. Shuffling your opponent's deck is not an insinuation that he or she is cheating, it's just a measure to prevent the opportunity. It's not being paranoid, especially when a prize is on the line and you're playing against someone you don't know. It's possible that he or she has improperly shuffled after his or her last game and cards are next to each other in an order that could be detrimental (for example, he or she may have a clump that is arranged land, Birds of Paradise , land, Birds of Paradise , Primeval Titan because he or she swept his or her last game's board directly into his or her deck and hasn't sufficiently shuffled it since).
Additionally, when someone mana shuffles and presents me his or her deck, I either pile shuffle it in the exact opposite way or ask him or her to properly shuffle his or her deck before I randomize it.
There is also no reason to not allow notes. If an effect causes you to look at your opponent's hand, then the cards in that hand are known information to you. It's illogical to expect someone to remember all of these cards - since their names are now known information and you do not have a way to determine what that known information is by looking at the board, you are permitted to record it.
Finally, some events actually forbid pile shuffling (I remember the judges announcing this at the beginning of SCG D.C.).
August 24, 2012 3:20 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #13
I'm just going on the premise that I shuffle my deck Four or five times when I finish a match, and usually another three to four times when I go to start a new match.
I agree completely with the idea that it's more fair for your opponent to have a couple of extra shuffles to guarantee they don't have any clumped god draws "accidentally" or not...but I still find it in bad form.
People are creatures of "interpreted intent." You may be simply playin the math, just like the guy who plays draw-go, or the guy playing mono-red. But your actions CAN be interpreted (true or false) as mistrusting. For me, Magic is about fun, and when someone shows that distrust in a game (I obviously don't play at high enough levels where real prizes are on the line) it takes the fun out of the game.
August 24, 2012 4:01 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #14
If you're playing on a casual level, that mentality is somewhat more understandable. However, I still think it's unreasonable to begrudge or resent your opponent's ability to shuffle your deck once more as part of the cutting process. It's not even because he or she distrusts you (although that can be how he or she feels sometimes), it's an action taken as part of the setup for the game.
August 24, 2012 4:07 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #15
@Epochalyptik: Okay maybe the paper thing was a bit uncalled for. However, I do not allow others to shuffle my decks because the second a card gets ruined while they shuffle, I"m demanding a brand new one, and I won't care if the card is 10 cents or 500$ That is my reason why I don't like to have my opponent shuffle my deck.
As far as mana shuffling goes, yeah I do legit shuffle my deck afterwards. In fact, I do at least 10-15 mash shuffles ( I believe that is where you just put cards on top from a pile you took out from the bottom of the deck ). I will never bridge the cards. Why do people do that? It ruins them .__.
August 24, 2012 4:14 p.m.
I did a GP a few months ago and I started out shuffling a bunch but everyone kept shuffling my deck for forever after me, so eventually I would shuffle once or twice and just give my deck to them to deal with. Saved me a bunch of energy that would otherwise have been wasted.
August 24, 2012 4:24 p.m.
cooknathan says... #17
It only ruins them if 1 your not using sleeves or 2 your shuffling poorly. When bridge shuffling, you really shouldnt (or it is unnecessary to) bend the cards much, this is harder with sleeves but still. IMHO a mash shuffle is pretty much equivalent to a bridge/riffle shuffle I like to mix between mash and pile shuffles. You are allowed to shuffle your opponents library at a tournament (103.1 from the comprehensive rules).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvTbQOU_Yt0&feature=related
August 24, 2012 4:43 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #18
Whenever I shuffle an opponent's deck, I only mash shuffle (split it in half, slide the two halves into each other). This doesn't damage the cards and still ensures a proper shuffle.
August 24, 2012 4:46 p.m.
Alright, I'll say that the "Rude and in bad form" comment was based off of my experiences playing casually. I've never been to anything resembling a major tournament and am entirely unfamiliar with the shuffling/cutting guidelines there. My response wasn't based off of fear that my cards would be damaged so much as the message it sends in a casual setting, either "I think you're trying to stack your deck so I'm going to shuffle for you" or "You're a moron who doesn't know how to shuffle right, so I'm going to shuffle your deck for you." At least, that is how I would react to it if it happened to me.
So, to be clear: I know nothing about high-level tournament shuffling rules, I only know my casual experience and defer to Epochalyptik on tourney matters.
...'Course the real trick would be to make your OPPONENT stack you deck for you when they cut, like that one episode of Yu-Gi-Oh, wouldn't it?
August 24, 2012 5:03 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #20
As a side note, my friend who has finished second in a number of PTQs in the past year used to get really mad because I didn't cut his deck.
August 24, 2012 5:33 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
Different playgroups have different customs. Casual players tend not to cut or shuffle one another's decks (trust, spirit of fun, etc.) while competitive players tend to take those actions. Each group accepts its customs as the norm and the only time a disagreement usually arises is when the two groups mix.
August 24, 2012 5:53 p.m.
TheOne4221 says... #22
When I shuffle I normally start with the seven card spread, then the whole poker shuffling bit. I tend to get better land distribution, so whether they cut or not I'll still have a semi-decent hand.
August 24, 2012 7:19 p.m.
This thread has gone on too long. I feel as if I need to shine some light on this topic.
If you are playing casually or at FNM, cutting your opponent's deck is perfect sufficient. If you're worried about your cards getting all bent and ruined, then either a) ask your opponent to just cut your deck, or b) maybe don't use those cards.
If you are at a Competitive or Professional REL event (SCG IQ, GPT, PTQ, etc.), then, as stated, you are REQUIRED to shuffle your opponent's deck. There are no exceptions. During the match, some players get lazy and just cut. We let that slide. But especially before the game, you need to shuffle your opponent's deck. If you get upset and call a judge, that is exactly what we will tell you.
From the Magic Tournament Rules (MTR):
At Competitive and Professional REL tournaments, players are required to shuffle their opponents decks after their owners have shuffled them. The Head Judge can require this at Regular REL tournaments as well.
This is also from the MTR:
Pile shuffling alone is not sufficiently random.
If you pile shuffle, you need to riffle sufficiently afterwards. Pile shuffles are not illegal (in fact, it's a great way to count the number of cards in your deck to ensure you de-sideboarded correctly), but they can not be the last form of randomization (because it's not random).
The arguing over having your opponents shuffle or not is just asinine. If you have questions about shuffling at a tournament or anything, I'll be happy to answer.
August 24, 2012 8:19 p.m.
shifterfox says... #24
I'm just going to be honest: casual games and playtest, I usually will shuffle a deck. If I see that my opponent at least shuffled enough that I think its shuffled enough(which is usually the case), then I'll do nothing more than cut their deck. I cut the deck like 5 times into the pentragram of colors and then put them together like drawing a star, then once more by cutting it in half. I cut your deck enough that its randomized and I don't bend/damage your cards by doing so. I even do this during tournaments most of the time.
but some divine being help you if I don't know you. you're getting bridge shuffled. I don't know you. I don't trust you. For all I know, you're there only for the prizes, and while I don't like to presume, there always is the chance you, being a stranger that is, is going to try to find ways to put the stakes in your favor.
Now, what's worse is this was also reinforced in my team due to the local competitive playing field. I bridge shuffle a deck properly every time. I bridge shuffle countless times on decks without sleeves(my own, mind you). the only cards I have that have ever gotten bent are cards I lost in my room and got crushed under books or some odd object that fell on them(usually basic lands. which is why it was just tossed around randomly in first place. lol). There would be people in our FNM who would have slips on their decks, using $200 decks, and almost always place within top 4. the same group. every time. for a decent amount of cash even. I'd go to bridge shuffle once, and they would PLEAD with me not to do it fore fear of me "damaging their cards". The rules state in a tournament, I'm permitted at minimum one shuffle. You're going to get at least one shuffle. If you didn't wish to have that expensive card damaged, you should have spent money on a spare to play with and kept the mint one at home in a case. Besides, if you win THAT much, you're more than capable of affording a replacement of that card with your winnings. Its a darn game. You put money into it, but its still a game. EVERYTHING in your deck is replaceable. Its nothing to go about trying to get a lawyer for a lawsuit or something over. Take that case to court. You'll get laughed at, imo.
It also doesn't help that teamates of my team have "seen" their opponents cheating. supposedly stacking either deck in their favor(shuffling in a way where they briefly glance at their bottom card to see if its good, then sliding it up towards the top intentionally and doing vice-versa for your deck. That small group of players were also recently caught cheating at that store. It wasn't shuffling related, but the point still stands that if they cheated in one way, there is the possibility they cheated in other ways too. Just gives me another reason more to shuffle that deck of their's.
August 24, 2012 10:50 p.m.
shifterfox says... #25
Final note: Give me a reason to trust you. Let me get to know you well. Play with me regularly. THEN you'll see me "shuffle" nicer for you. Competitively, however, i'm going to anyway. usually around 3-5 times for both decks. My own deck I shuffled 3-5 times after cleaning my board between games to ensure consistency. I also see shuffling as being kind to my opponent. I mean, hey, if you WANT that hand of 5 lands, a Hero of Bladehold and an Avacyn, Angel of Hope , where the next 3 out of 5 cards on top of your deck turn up being lands as well, that's up to you. I'll gladly give you that crap while I beat your deck to a pulp during the first few turns. shrugs You can say it hasn't happened. Lands make up over a third of your deck, afterall. Its more than probable.
August 24, 2012 10:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #27
@shifterfox: No offense, but your argument makes you sound a bit like an ass. If someone allows you to shuffle their deck and requests that you not bridge shuffle, there is no legitimate reason for you to choose bridge over mash or some other method. It's a matter of courtesy at that point. Regardless of whether you think bridging does or does not put wear on cards (it does), there are equivalent techniques that achieve exactly the same result with more peace of mind and less mishandling.
August 24, 2012 10:56 p.m.
shifterfox says... #28
I also should note I don't know how to shuffle other than bridge shuffle. Every other kind of "random" shuffle I try never seems to get the job done right. shrugs inexperience for the lose.
I read pretty much this entire thread thus far. What IS a mash shuffle? Have I tried it?
August 24, 2012 11:05 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #29
@shifterfox: I agree with Epochalyptik. You bridge someone's cards and you ruin them, that is destruction of property whether you see it worthy or not. Also, not everyone is made of money, and just HAPPENED to get their 100-300$ cards from a good friend who decided to quit the game. Some people don't even realize they have expensive cards until they are told. To say that if you can afford one card in your deck you can buy more is not a fair assumption.
On top of this, if someone asks you not to bridge their cards for fear of them being ruined, and you bridge them anyway, not many people are gonna wanna play with you, tournament or not. To also be that childish, and I am sorry if this upsets you, over a simple request for someone to like their cards in mint condition all the time, then maybe YOU are taking the game too seriously.
August 24, 2012 11:05 p.m.
shifterfox says... #30
I also should note I don't know how to shuffle other than bridge shuffle. Every other kind of "random" shuffle I try never seems to get the job done right. shrugs inexperience for the lose.
I read pretty much this entire thread thus far. What IS a mash shuffle? Have I tried it?
August 24, 2012 11:06 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #31
I explained it briefly a while ago. It's when you divide a deck in half and slide one half into the other. It's like riffling/bridging, but you don't bend the cards at any point. You simply push them back together. The deck needs to be sleeved for mashing to be efficient, but you can mash unsleeved decks by loosening your grip and jostling the halves together lightly.
Mashing is a better way to shuffle because it's just as fast but doesn't introduce the risk of bending or creasing.
August 24, 2012 11:11 p.m.
shifterfox says... #32
@EpochalyptikActually, I have done that. My biggest problem is I can't do it without sleeves on the deck. I just can't get my hand to loosen the right way. I either loosen too much or not enough and I just end up pile shuffling while looking like a moron. I will say I have taken notice to attempting to mash shuffle my opponent's decks rather than bridging. Now that I think about it, i did just make an ass of myself. lol Part of what I said was the way I PREVIOUSLY thought about shuffling and still partly do. You have to forgive me, its been since Avacyn PreRelease that I last played in a tournament where people cared how their decks were shuffled. I had picked up the habit of asking politely FIRST, if they were okay with bridge shuffling so long as I do it properly. If they decline, then I attempt to mash shuffle + pile shuffle both, to correct any errors in my attempt.
Though, my opinion on taking the game, involving shuffling, too seriously stands as this: equal parts of both. you should get upset that someone is shuffling your deck, regardless of what kind of shuffling. I view mtg, as a whole, as a game. everything is replacable(except the products they stopped production of). By passing my your deck during a tournament, you agree to put full trust into me handling your property, know me or not. bridge shuffling probably wears out the cards faster than any other way, but improperly shuffling another way I don't know how to do likely risks even greater chances of damage/creasing/bending. I've done it on my own cards trying to practice. Blame it on ignorance(which is for the most part true at times), and/or arrogance(for the attitude). I don't have the money to buy expensive decks and cards. Never really had. I got lucky on the pulling of what all I gathered up or earned it all the hard way through using my prize earnings to get more..It IS ignorant of me to say: I don't honestly see the problem. my opinion on a "mint" card is a card that upon being found was put into a protective case and never handled with bare hands, If its no longer 'mint', it doesn't really matter, so long as you can read the front of a card properly, use deck sleeves, and the card isn't so creased/bent that it sticks out of the deck like a sore thumb. <=
August 24, 2012 11:28 p.m.
shifterfox says... #33
"shouldn't* get upset" grr. grammar nazi myself >:O rawr!
August 24, 2012 11:31 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #34
The thing is, condition does matter (at least to a lot of people). Standard players aren't going to keep the same deck together forever. It'll eventually get take apart and traded to fund future decks. A deck represents an investment and when someone mishandles it and damages the cards, they take away from that investment. Just because a card isn't mint doesn't mean it doesn't have value.
Beyond the trade standpoint, if you lend someone your property to use or handle (essentially what you're doing when you allow someone to cut your deck) and they damage it in some way, they are responsible. I wouldn't lend someone my car and let them return it covered in mud or scratches without repercussions on some level or another.
August 24, 2012 11:44 p.m.
shifterfox says... #35
that is fair enough.
My view probably isn't helped by the fact that I've gotten so pissed off at all of the local standard players using such expensive decks that we like to call "net-decking" around here. It has gotten to the point, actually where the last standard tournament I played with my own deck was back when Innistrad first released. I've been interested only in limited for the most part, ever sense. Its not fun and makes me rage when you play 4-5 rounds with around 30+ people, where you're likely to face the top placing decks in pro tour in half of the tournament, only to get pummeled mercilessly by cocky(and I do mean cocky) pricks who treat you like crap and win in 4-5 turns flat every game...then use it over and over and over and over for 2 straight years or until something releases that beats their previous one.
Just makes me realize how crappy the gaming environment in my area is. = My apologies. Its a good thing I've joined this site then. I can spend time discussing with players who don't treat others like crap. it'll help change my outlook on the game for the positive. :3
August 24, 2012 11:58 p.m.
You say that you can only mash shuffle decks that are sleeved. If a deck is unsleeved, chances are that player doesn't particularly care about the condition of their cards. They're likely causing the same if not more damage than you are. I will agree that mash shuffling unsleeved cards is difficult.
However, if you're playing at FNM and someone is playing a deck worth anything, they need to protect it with sleeves. How is this not common sense?
tl;dr: if the deck is sleeved, just mash it. If it's unsleeved, why is that person getting upset that you're bridging?
August 25, 2012 12:21 a.m.
cooknathan says... #38
Just one other quick thought. My personal policy is consistency with shuffling. In casual play I dont bother shuffling, my playgroup just dosent care. At FNM I will cut every opponents deck even though many of them dont cut my deck. At higher level competition, a few quick mash shuffles then a cut for every opponent.
This way everyone is treated fairly and if I do suspect someone is cheating (or if they are mana weaving like many new players do) they still get shuffled without me discriminating.
August 25, 2012 1:09 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #40
Otherwise known as mana shuffling. It's when you take your lands and distribute them evenly throughout your deck. For example, in a 60-card deck with 20 lands, you would arrange them card, card, land, card, card, land, ad nauseam. It's a method some players use to prevent land from clumping up, but it is also considered deck stacking if the deck is not sufficiently randomized afterward. In reality, I doubt it really does much because you have to shuffle very well anyway. The benefit is mostly psychological.
August 25, 2012 2:07 a.m.
shifterfox says... #41
ah...lol when we did that back in highschool for casual...we'd do something like taking all of our land out into one pile, then bridge/mash them into the deck rather than placing. I only ever do such a thing now the very first time I build a deck...and then I just shuffle the crap out of it afterwards...like a good 20+ times for good measure. xD oh, I also find taking the deck and seperating it into 4 piles upon creation (cardA-pile1, cardB-pile2...then cardE-pile1) helps to get the deck started up good cause of seperating all of the duplicates. afterwards, I bridge/mash shuffle them together numerous times. See above* lol
I only justify it if its gonna be shuffled consistently afterwards...and I mean CONSISTENTLY. xD
August 25, 2012 2:13 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #42
@Epoch"Additionally, when someone mana shuffles and presents me his or her deck, I either pile shuffle it in the exact opposite way or ask him or her to properly shuffle his or her deck before I randomize it."
Asking them to properly shuffle their deck is ok (though I would encourage you to call a judge at anything above regular). But regarding Pile shuffling their deck specifically to break up mana shuffling/stacking methods, you should call a judge instead. If you pile shuffle their deck because you think they have stacked their deck and you are trying to unstack it, it warrants a DQ.
3.9 of the tournament rules"...If the opponent does not believe the player made a reasonable effort to randomize his or her deck, the opponent must notify a judge...."
Under Cheating - Fraud in the IPG
An example of Cheating - Fraud"G. A player sees her opponent mana weave and randomize insufficiently and pile shuffles to undo the weave instead of calling a judge."
August 25, 2012 1:01 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #43
Unweaving the mana from my opponent's deck is done at a casual level, not in a competitive environment. It's basically a move to say "you're supposed to shuffle that."
August 25, 2012 2 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #44
"Unweaving the mana from my opponent's deck is done at a casual level, not in a competitive environment. It's basically a move to say "you're supposed to shuffle that.""
Ok. I just wanted to make sure you were aware. Also, I didn't realize there were 3 pages of posts lol. thought the first page was all.
August 25, 2012 2:56 p.m.
On a regular level like FNMs, I'd just imitate what my opponent does to my deck most of the time if he shuffles sufficiently. If he riffles mine, I'll riffle his, if he bridges it, I'll bridge his, simple as that. On any higher levels, I'd just riffle repeatedly, throwing in a few overhands until he's done, which is usually 10-15 times of riffling.
To the people who are very protective of their cards, it's understandable. I'd feel immense pain if my promo Restoration Angels got damaged, hence I use normal Restoration Angels during plays in events. You can request before your opponent shuffles to avoid certain shuffles you feel are damaging to your cards, and see if he/she obliges.
However, if you're unacceptable of the possibility of your requests not being obliged, I do feel that it'd be better to stay with your playgroup where you're more comfortable with each other. I've seen random new faces pop up at the local game store who whine about and blame their opponents for bad draws from cutting/shuffling their decks and never appear again. Oh wells.
August 25, 2012 4:37 p.m.
This: "Shuffling your opponent's deck is not rude or in bad form unless you're bending the cards. I usually do a few mash shuffles because riffling presents the opportunity to put bend wear on the cards." -Epochalyptik
Also, I've modified my shuffling technique if anyone is interested.
First, I pile shuffle. This is solely to get any clumps of cards unstuck from sweaty palms handling them, etc.
Next, I alternate between mashing and riffling, as using only one shuffling method is prone to clumping (that's just the nature of physics).
After at least 9 shuffles, I offer a cut.
If I need to mulligan, I mash/riffle another 5ish times and toss some overhands in there for good luck.
Yes, all of this shuffling tends to take some time, but there simply is no way to shuffle quickly and consistently randomize your deck. I've developed this method because my hands can perform it relatively quickly compared to other techniques I've tried. I playtest my deck on T/O with truly random shuffles, so I like to play IRL with truly random shuffles. That's my philosophy.
August 27, 2012 1:11 p.m.
shifterfox says... #47
okay...now I have to ask: bridge I know. pile i know. mash I know...what's overhand and riffle? xD
August 27, 2012 2:15 p.m.
riffle = bridge
overhand = hold deck in one hand, take a clump of cards from the bottom with the other hand and move it up and over to the top of the deck. repeat. the only thing that overhand does really is obscure where top/bottom used to be, as the cards relatively stay the same groups that they used to be. so, it pairs great with mash/riffle where the top and bottom cards tend to stay in place.
August 27, 2012 2:55 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #49
I should have posted this earlier:
For anyone who's interested, an acquaintance of mine has been blogging about selected topics in mathematics in the context of Magic - http://mathofmagic.wordpress.com/. It's really interesting stuff.
MindAblaze says... #2
I find it annoying when people shuffle my deck. It's an insinuation that I'm cheating, a cut should suffice. I do agree with clumping being a pain in the butt though, so I usually throw the cards into different spots before I shuffle.
August 24, 2012 11:50 a.m.