Rite of Replication on Purphoros. Instant win?
Asked by Lurac 8 years ago
This came up in an EDH game:My opponent was running Purphoros, God of the Forge as his commander. Purphoros was a creature (due to Opalescence, and not devotion, but that is probably not relevant).
I was about to go down when my 3-color deck finally found blue mana, and I was able to cast a kicked Rite of Replication, targeting Purphoros.
Am I right in assuming that I get 5 copies of the God, which brings me to 5 devotion, making them all enter simultaneously as creatures, and that they each see 4 other creatures enter and that 20 instances of "Purphoros, God of the Forge deals 2 damage to each opponent" are put on the stack before 4 of them die to the legendary rule?
Is it correct that Opalescence does not affect this scenario?
I told them "you each take 40 damage"
My question: Did I cheat or did I win?
I think you need Opalescence to win here. Looking at this ruling Purphoros, God of the Forge would not enter as a creature in the scenario described without Opalescence making them a creature to begin with.
November 12, 2015 12:16 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
Interesting. The answers I found here and here seem to indicate that the five tokens on their own are sufficient.
November 12, 2015 12:44 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
@JWiley129: That ruling applies to replacement effects that would modify how an object enters the battlefield, which isn't what's going on here. There is no moment (not even a very short one) that the token copies are on the battlefield yet somehow not creatures, because for as long as they're there you have sufficient devotion. They enter as creatures and will trigger any appropriate triggered abilities.
November 12, 2015 2:05 p.m.
Rhadamanthus - That could very well be the case. Just goes to show how complicated the Gods actually are in game terms. I guess then in the situation described Opalescence just makes it double-sure that everyone at the table died.
November 12, 2015 2:10 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
The incredibly simple way to figure out that if the gods enter as creatures if they are the deciding factor is to look at the gatherer rulings:
4/26/2014: If a God enters the battlefield, your devotion to its color (including the mana symbols in the mana cost of the God itself) will determine if a creature entered the battlefield or not, for abilities that trigger whenever a creature enters the battlefield.
Another thing to note is that if an Opalescence is on the field and a god enters and doesn't have devotion it will not be a creature. Both of the type changing abilities apply in timestamp order so Opalescence will make it a creature and its own ability will then proceed to make it not a creature.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
You won.
Each Purphoros, God of the Forge sees each other one entering and triggers appropriately. Therefore, each one will trigger four times for a total of twenty triggers totaling 40 damage.
Opalescence is irrelevant. You can copy Purphoros, God of the Forge because it's a creature, and they'll collectively raise your devotion to sufficient levels to count them all as creatures.
Note, however, that four of the tokens will die to the legend rule before the abilities are put into the stack. State-based actions are always performed before triggered abilities are stacked. This doesn't affect how the abilities resolve; though. They'll still resolve and deal damage using the dead tokens' last known information.
November 12, 2015 12:08 p.m.