Eidolon of Rhetoric and 2nd Spell on a turn
Asked by TheNinjaJesus 9 years ago
If I had a way to flash in an Eidolon of Rhetoric when my opponent's second spell of a turn was on the stack, once the Eidolon enters the battlefield, the spell is countered, right?
FancyTuesday says... #2
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The spell would not be countered because Eidolon of Rhetoric prevents the casting of spells and the spell has already been cast, so it has no event to prevent. Casting triggers and replacement/prevention effects all take place as the spell moves from the hand to the stack, not as they resolve.
November 14, 2014 3:10 p.m.
Just to reinforce this, wording when it comes to Magic rulings is very specific.
Casting a spell is the act of putting it on the stack. So it's impossible to try and counter a spell with these kind of effects since the spell has already been cast. Spells resolve from the stack, you're not casting it when the spell actually goes off.
701.4a To cast a spell is to take it from the zone its in (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. A player may cast a spell if he or she has priority. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."
November 14, 2014 3:15 p.m.
TheNinjaJesus says... #5
I get that, but if it's above the spell that you're trying to prevent, the Eidolon is already on the battlefield by the time the other spell would check the state of casting as a legal or illegal action, right? That's the whole point of Flash, to get a creature onto the battlefield in response to an instant. So, if they say "I cast X", aren't you in essence saying "Before your spell is cast, I'm flashing the Eidolon into play"?
November 14, 2014 3:16 p.m.
TheNinjaJesus says... #6
Ah, Slycne got the answer right above my further inquiry.
November 14, 2014 3:17 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #7
Eidolon of Rhetoric creates a static effect that prevents the casting of spells. The spell on the stack has already been cast so there is no opportunity to prevent it from being cast.
615.4 Prevention effects must exist before the appropriate damage event occursthey cant go back in time and change something thats already happened. Spells or abilities that generate these effects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolve before that event would occur.
November 14, 2014 3:20 p.m.
TheNinjaJesus No, again this is an issue of misusing cast and resolves. For an easy example of this think of Counterspell replacing "I'm flashing the Eidolon into play".
"Before your spell is cast, I'm Counterspelling it" doesn't work. What's actually happening is that you're effectively saying before your spell resolves I'm doing something in response.
November 14, 2014 3:20 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #9
Sorry, that's a bad rule that specifically handles damage, but the event handling and timing are the same, I'll dig for something more relevant...
November 14, 2014 3:24 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #10
Yeah, it looks like the most relevant rule is the one Slycne already pointed to, describing the timing of the event in question. Eidolon of Rhetoric prevents the casting event which is a specific thing that has already happened, it does not interact with spells at any point after that.
Compare this to say, Containment Priest, which replaces the Enter the Battlefield event, not the casting event (but checks to make sure it was cast). Flashing Containment Priest out with a creature spell that was not cast on the stack will exile that creature because the event Containment Priest will replace, the Enter the Battlefield event, has not occurred yet.
GreatSword says... #1
No. Eidolon of Rhetoric must be on the battlefield for his ability to take effect. Similar to Silence, this effect doesn't do anything to spells already on the stack.
November 14, 2014 3:06 p.m.