When exactly does Hungering Hydra get it's counters in this scenario?
Asked by StormSky92 1 year ago
Say I have a 6/6 Hungering Hydra My opponent hits me with 2 Lightning Bolts and has their Satyr Firedancer target the hydra to deal 3 damage to it twice. Does the Hydra die or does it gain counters after each individual hit of damage? (becoming a 12/12 at the end)
wallisface says... #2
Yeah seshiro_of_the_orochi is completely correct. If the opponent just haphazardly throws Bolts at you, you’ll end up with a 12/12. But, he can cast the first bolt, and then respond to that first hydra trigger to cast the second bolt, killing it before it gains any counters at all.
June 11, 2023 3:50 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #3
There are some small nitpicky problems with your explanation, but they make no difference to this specific example. So you got the end state correct.
June 11, 2023 10 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #4
Gidgetimer: If I asked you to nitpick, would you explain the details so I could do better?
June 12, 2023 12:16 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
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The stack doesn't resolve, objects on the stack resolve. You may know this, but a mistake I see many newer players make is thinking that the stack resolves as a single unit and it is simply that the effects happen in FILO order. Spells/abilities on the stack resolve one at a time in FILO order and there is a round of priority after each object resolves.
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"Fizzle" means to be countered by the rules of the game because a targeted spell/ability has no legal targets upon resolution. The Hydra ability doesn't target. So it will still resolve, it just has no effect because the affected object is no longer on the battlefield. If a non-targeted spell/ability does other things besides affecting a permanent the other effects still happen. If a targeted spell/ability has additional untargeted effects, the spell fizzles and none of the effects happen.
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"So after Firedancer has resolved for the second time, we check for state-based actions before any triggered abilities are being put on the stack." We already have one Hydra trigger on the stack. It is true that SBAs are checked and the Hydra dies before the second trigger goes on the stack; however, it is more pertinent that the SBAs are checked before either ability resolves.
(This third one is super nitpicky and you said absolutely nothing wrong in regards to it. I just feel like you missed the pertinent information in favor of true but irrelevant information)
June 12, 2023 6:59 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #6
Gidgetimer: Thanks for the explanations. I won't answer detailed to not derail the thread, but I didn't actually know all of what you wrote regarding 2. Thanks a lot!
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... Accepted answer #1
With your given explanation, here's what happens on the stack:
1: You get hit by lightning Bolt, which triggers Firedancer, which targets Hydra. To make it a little more simple, let's assume the stack starts resolving at this point without the second Bolt being cast.
2: Firedancer resolves, which triggers Hydra.
At this point, there are multiple ways to go on:
A: Let's assume your opponents lets everything resolve to then cast a second Bolt. This results in your Hydra becoming a 12/12. But there's another way.
B: If they cast the second Bolt with the Hydra trigger on the stack, Firedancer will deal another 3 damage to your 6/6, which puts it to lethal damage. So after Firedancer has resolved for the second time, we check for state-based actions before any triggered abilities are being put on the stack. This is where Hydra will die. Both Hydra triggers will fizzle.
Whoa, I didn't actually expect this would go this way. Just to be sure, can anyone confirm or deny what I just explained?
June 11, 2023 9:49 a.m.