Stealing cards in EDH
Asked by pedroedmarcos 5 years ago
Hey there,
I just saw this "Comprehensive Rules Changes" and I didn't get it.
It says: "110.2b and 800.4c If I steal your creature then lose the game, you get it back since you're its default controller. If I steal your spell then lose the game before it resolves, you get it back since you're its default controller. But if I steal your spell, and it becomes a permanent, then I lose the game, you didn't used to get it back. That's changed to line up with other effects that change an object's controller, though, if I take something from you that you never controlled (with Bribery, for example), it still gets exiled if I lose the game."
One of my friends have a Marchesa, the Black Rose that steal creatures. So If my opponnent takes the control of my Zacama, Primal Calamity (Using the interaction of marchesa, taking control with something like Captivating Crew , followed by putting a +1/+1 counter on it and then sacrificing, so it doesn't return to me at the end of turn) but I kill him, I take my dino back?
Gidgetimer says... #2
So, I don't ever actually play Commandeer and was unfamiliar with its text. It was simply the first "gain control of a spell" card that I thought of. Change "... was not a spell that was Commandeer ed .." to "... was not a spell that was Aethersnatch ed..." in my previous reply.
September 27, 2019 2:52 p.m.
pedroedmarcos says... #3
Got it, was really confused by this one, Thanks a lot for the help and kindness o/.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
Referenced rules:
110.2b If an effect causes a player to gain control of another player’s permanent spell, the first player controls the permanent that spell becomes, but the permanent’s controller by default is the player who put that spell onto the stack. (This distinction is relevant in multiplayer games; see rule 800.4c.)
800.4c If an effect that gives a player still in the game control of an object ends, there is no other effect giving control of that object to another player in the game, and the player who controlled that object by default has left the game, the object is exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the control-changing effect ends.
The "rules change" seems to just be the addition of 110.2b. What applies in this case is the first part of 110.2. The Zacama, Primal Calamity was not a spell that was Commandeer ed. the Default control is the opponent with the Marchesa because it came in under his control. If he leaves the game Zacama, Primal Calamity is exiled via 800.4a.
110.2. A permanent’s owner is the same as the owner of the card that represents it (unless it’s a token; see rule 111.2). A permanent’s controller is, by default, the player under whose control it entered the battlefield.
800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if that player controlled any objects on the stack not represented by cards, those objects cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time they left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who’s still in the game.
September 27, 2019 2:48 p.m.