Sensei Golden-Tail and Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho
Asked by deadmanwalking 13 years ago
So according to the ruling on Sensei Golden-Tail , the counters he gives and the abilities he gives are completely separate, that is, proliferating the counters doesn't give more instances of bushido, and Vampire Hexmage ing a creature doesn't remove bushido. I don't know if that matters at all to the question I have, but I thought it might be helpful. Anyway on to the question:
Lets say I use Sensei Golden-Tail to make White Knight into a samurai. then I equip the knight with card:Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho. If the white knight goes to the graveyard, does it return to play or not?
papabearcia1 says... #2
When the creature goes to the graveyard, it loses all counters it has on it, unless specified that it doesn't lose them, like Skullbriar, the Walking Grave . Oathkeeper will check White Knight after it loses the counter, which means it is not a samurai, and thus not returning to the field.
July 10, 2011 12:17 a.m.
deadmanwalking says... #3
uh papabearcia1, the counter is not what defines it as a samurai, as I said.
July 10, 2011 12:19 a.m.
papabearcia1 says... #6
though according to the ruling, if you proliferate the counters though, each bushido triggers separately. Meaning 2 counters equal +2/+2 blocking or blocked.
July 10, 2011 12:26 a.m.
deadmanwalking says... #7
no, the ruling says that multiple instances of bushido trigger separately, meaning that each time you activate his ability targeting the same creature, they would gain an additional instance of bushido 1. proliferating the counters would simply add more counters, and not more instances of bushido 1.
July 10, 2011 12:30 a.m.
papabearcia1 says... #8
sorry proliferate wouldn't do anything, this is when I wish you could delete comments. It has to be sensei to put the counter on it, bu if does it the ability stacks.
July 10, 2011 12:32 a.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #9
orical ruling
"12/1/2004 The training counter just marks which creatures have been changed; an effect that removes the counter doesn't change the creature's types or abilities."
so even if the counters are removed like when its put into the graveyard he still counts as a samuri untill it leaves play.
but
orical ruling
"12/1/2004 Oathkeeper's second ability checks whether the card's creature type is Samurai, not whether the creature was a Samurai when it left the battlefield."
im to not shur what happens to the senseis ability after the creature leaves play and enters the graveyard
most likely the oathkeeper sees that it doesnt have the samuri creature type and stays in the graveyard
July 10, 2011 12:09 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #10
Oathkeeper can't return the White Knight. As the ruling that xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx quoted says, it doesn't check for "Samurainess" until after the creature is already in the graveyard. The reason for this is because the ability is written to say "return that card to the battlefield under your control if it's a Samurai card". Here, "that card" refers to the card in the graveyard, not the creature it used to be when it was on the battlefield, and Oathkeeper checks to see if "that card" is a Samurai. Once he's in the graveyard, White Knight is no longer a Samurai.
July 11, 2011 2:18 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #11
my bad about the answer, crono is correct the card will not return i thought it was the same as when you ping a creature with a card like Cunning Sparkmage equiped with Basilisk Collar and in response an opponent doom blades my creature. where it uses last known info and still kills the creature due to damage with deathtouch. but this is not the case.
SwiftDeath says... #1
yes when the white knight goes to the graveyard oathkeeper checks for all last known info as such last time it checked white knight was a human knight samurai so it will return to play but not as a samurai. when a creature leaves play it will lose all known info about its previous existance so any effects or counter will simply cease to exist.
July 10, 2011 12:17 a.m.