Interaction between Araumi of the Dead Tide and Seer of Stolen Sight
Asked by CamraMaan 6 months ago
I know this will be a point of contention at the kitchen table, so some preemptive clarity on the matter is in order, plus I'm only 95% how it should turn out. Let's say Araumi of the Dead Tide let me encore Aphetto Alchemist and Seer of Stolen Sight. At the beginning of my end step they all go on the stack to be sacrificed in any order I want, and we'll say the Aphetto Alchemists are sacrificed first. My assumption is that each Seer of Stolen Sight will trigger separately for each creature sacrifice as it resolves on the stack. The other possibility is that since Seer of Stolen Sight says "one or more" it could be that they only trigger once (each), since all the creatures being sacrificed are leaving the battlefield "at the same time". I know a few of my friends will argue this. I would a month ago too. But now I'm pretty sure that as each creature sac resolves on the stack, each other creature triggers appropriately putting triggers on the stack, which resolve before the next encore sacrifice trigger resolves. So in this case, the "or more" portion won't make any difference. Correct...?
TIA!
Since all the Aphetto Alchemists and all the Seer of Stolen Sights are encored and being sacrificed simultaneously, all six sacrifices will be seen as just one event to each Seer, correct? And thank you for the help, this one apparently still has me slightly confused and still learning.
October 10, 2023 4:40 a.m.
That being said, if Seer of Stolen Sight's text did not say "one or more", would they trigger individually for each...?
October 10, 2023 4:42 a.m.
As the Seer has 'or more', which means afaik that if multiple simultaneous events trigger it, the Seer still only produces 1 trigger.
Maybe this example will help... if you paid for a Toxic Deluge with 3 Treasure tokens, each Treasure you separately sacrifice will create a new trigger, but if you lose 4 creatures to Deluge you only get 1 more trigger. Note, if your Seer somehow survives but dies immediately as a state-based action (ie one or more now dead creatures was a 'Lord', and without them your Seer then dies to Deluge's -x/-x without their power up), you would get another trigger.
October 10, 2023 6:46 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
@CamraMaan: The group of Alchemist tokens and the group of Seer tokens are not dying simultaneously. The encore abilities that made them are independent of each other, so there is a separate delayed triggered ability set up for each group. This means they get sacrificed at different times. If you order things the way you describe, each Seer will trigger once when the group of Alchemists gets sacrificed and then each Seer will trigger once again when the group of Seers gets sacrificed.
If Seer of Stolen Sight didn't have the "one or more" thing then it would trigger for every creature and artifact independently.
October 10, 2023 10:23 a.m. Edited.
Ahhh, good to know! Ok, so each encore activation links the created tokens to the same sacrifice event... that makes sense, but I hadn't realized that before. That being said, with multiple encored creatures creating multiple groups of tokens that all get sacrificed at the beginning of the end step, do I still have the option to rearrange the order of which creature is sacrificed when, or does each group of tokens all get put on the stack together one after another, then the next chosen group, etc? Like with the example above, can I alternate between Aphetto Alchemist and Seer of Stolen Sight triggers on the stack? Or is it simply that one group goes on the stack and then the next?
October 11, 2023 1:28 a.m.
I'm pretty sure that since all would be added at the same time you could arrange your sac triggers group by group, with the last group added to the stack resolving first.
October 11, 2023 8:52 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
It's by group. In this example you have one triggered ability to sacrifice all the Alchemist tokens and a second triggered ability to sacrifice all the Seer tokens. You can arrange the order of those two triggers the way you want, but you have to resolve the first one completely before the next one can start. You can't alternate between individual Alchemists and Seers.
October 11, 2023 8:54 a.m.
Makes sense. And good to know. I was under the impression I could mix them up as I see fit. Not that this really affects my plans with the deck in any bad way.
Much appreciated!
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1
With the way Encore works, the Aphetto Alchemist copies get sacrificed at the same time. Each Seer of Stolen Sight will only trigger once for the event, not three times each.
Here are the detailed rules for Encore. Note that they don't say the copies gain "sacrifice [this] at ...", rather it's a single delayed triggered ability that instructs you to sacrifice all of them.
702.141. Encore
702.141a Encore is an activated ability that functions while the card with encore is in a graveyard. “Encore [cost]” means “[Cost], Exile this card from your graveyard: For each opponent, create a token that’s a copy of this card that attacks that opponent this turn if able. The tokens gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.”
October 9, 2023 2:30 p.m.