If I were to put Genju of the Realm on to a Land and put Helm of the Host on it while its a Creature, what will happen after???
Asked by bwanabeast5 5 years ago
What I really want to know is if Helm of the Host stays on the land after the turn is over.
Additionally, the land's power and toughness while the Genju ability is active are not copiable, so any Helm of the Host copies will be copies of the enchanted land itself, not the legendary 8/12 Spirit creature with trample portion.
February 17, 2019 1 p.m.
bwanabeast5 says... #3
Kogarashi, do you have any evidence to back this up? Because I don't see how that works. The land becomes a Creature and that allows Helm of the Host to copy that creature, does it not??
February 17, 2019 2:33 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
I just assumed that you knew you got an unanimated land and were just doing some janky ramp stuff or copying legendary lands. Here are the rules on what is copied. Notice that type-changing effects are specifically mentioned as not being copied.
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
February 17, 2019 4:56 p.m.
bwanabeast5, as Gidgetimer said, the type-changing effects are not copied. Additionally, rule 706.2 includes an example that is similar:
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Chimeric Staff has an ability similar to that of Genju of the Realm , which in its specific case changes the staff into a creature. However copying the staff-creature just gets you an inanimate staff. Similarly, copying an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth that's been enchanted with Genju of the Realm and then animated, using Helm of the Host to make the copies, just gets you a nonlegendary Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . This won't let you make 8/12 trample creatures on the cheap.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
The helm will not stay on it. It will be detached as a state-based action after the land is no longer animated.
301.5. Some artifacts have the subtype "Equipment." An Equipment can be attached to a creature. It can't legally be attached to an object that isn't a creature.
704.5n If an Equipment or Fortification is attached to an illegal permanent, it becomes unattached from that permanent. It remains on the battlefield.
February 17, 2019 11:50 a.m.