How does Ezuri, claw of progress work with hydras?
Asked by Monomanamaniac 11 months ago
If I have Ezuri, Claw of Progress in play and I play a Kalonian Hydra, do I get an experience counter? I thought that creatures that had counters on them as they enter the battlefield have those placed on them by a trigger on the stack that can be responded to, which would somehow give ezuri a window to see those creatures as 0/0 by having his ability resolve first. From what I have seen though it looks like those counters basically materialize out of nowhere and there is no way to make it work like that. How can effects like Hardened Scales be able to see the counters being put on the creature?
dragonstryke58 says... Accepted answer #2
Just to add a little extra information to Neotrup's answer:
The part of Kalonian Hydra adding the counters as it enters is not a triggered ability. It is a replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield. Instead of entering as a 0/0, Kalonian Hydra enters the battlefield as a 4/4 (a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters) instead.
Since it has "enters the battlefield" in Kalonian Hydra's effect, you may have gotten it confused with ETB's which are triggered abilities. ETB's are characterized by "When..." or "Whenever..." at the beginning of their text.
As for Hardened Scales, it is a replacement effect that modifies an event that would put counters on a creature you control. It doesn't see the counters placed on the creature. It sees an event that would put +1/+1 counters on your creature and replaces that event with an event that adds that many plus one instead.
Relevant Comprehensive Rules:
For Hardened Scales:
614.1a Effects that use the word “instead” are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word “instead” to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.
For Kalonian Hydra:
614.1d Continuous effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield . . .” or “[Objects] enter the battlefield . . .” are replacement effects.
ETB Triggers:
603.6a Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, “When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . “ or “Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . .” Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.
May 24, 2023 4:56 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Monomanamaniac: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any more follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of them as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
Neotrup says... #1
The creatures enter with the counters. There is no point in which they do not have the counters, so Ezuri, Claw of Progress will not trigger. If the ability used the stack, they would be a 0/0 while waiting for the ability to resolve, which would make them go to the graveyard as a state based action.
Some spells or abilities create a token that's a 0/0 and then immediately give it power and toughness during the resolution. Key examples would be Fractals from Strixhaven or Germs from living weapon equipment. These do enter and exist as a 0/0 during the resolution of the spell or ability creating them, so they will trigger Ezuri, Claw of Progress even though they're larger when Ezuri's ability resolves.
May 18, 2023 7:45 p.m.