effects that remove from game clarification
Asked by Djmikewhite 9 years ago
My buddy played Massive Raid and then used Dual Casting to hit me for 7 direct damage twice. I played Otherworldly Journey to remove his creature with Dual Casting on it. Would that in turn remove the double damage meaning I would take 7 damage, or would the effect stay and I would take 14 damage?
lithium142 says... #2
interactions with spells on the stack are really weird, lol
you cannot respond to abilities that pay costs (paying the mana-cost and tapping the creature), so you would only be able to respond to his dual-casting ability going on the stack. thus his ability would still go on the stack, and still resolve.
however, since your ability resolves first, he would have one less creature when both of his Massive Raids resolve. So you would take 12.
March 28, 2016 6:25 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
"you cannot respond to abilities that pay costs (paying the mana-cost and tapping the creature)"
Of course you can. Unless the ability is a mana ability, any player may respond to it.
You announce you are activating an ability, pay the costs, then the ability goes on the stack. At this time, players will have an opportunity to respond.
The same is true for casting spells.
You are half right on the damage change, however. If you respond to the initial cast of Massive Raid with your Otherworldly Journey, the opponent responds by activating the copy ability. The copy ability resolves first, dealing 7 damage, then Otherworldly Journey resolves, then the initial Massive Raid resolves dealing 6 damage for a total of 13. Otherwise, you would indeed take 12 if your opponent cast the spell, held priority, and activated his copy ability before you cast your spell.
March 28, 2016 6:43 p.m.
lithium142 says... #4
now im second-guessing myself and you have me fact-checking XD i can link you a few rulings if you like, but i was definitely right about this. Although it is not a mana-ability, it functions almost exactly like one.
"To cast a spell, it is moved from where ever it is to the stack. Then all choices are made (I.E. Targets and modes) and costs are paid. Then and only then is priority passed to other players."
you kind of stated this, yourself, but i think you misinterpreted it? or maybe you misunderstood what i was trying to say..
either way;
this ruling is why it's near impossible to interrupt Melira combos (because you cannot respond to the sacrificing of a creature, but rather, you must resond to the ability itself) , and why you couldn't use Tormod's Crypt to prevent someone from casting a delve card like Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Same as this situation. if you could respond to an activation cost, then you could interrupt the ability going onto the stack.
anyway, i'm pretty sure we're both saying the same thing, here, because your explanation was spot on aside from this bit about activation costs. tell me im wrong, if you see my error, though =)
March 28, 2016 10:43 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #5
An activated ability does not consist of 2 abilities combined. They are written as "cost:effect", separated by the colon.
During the time where costs are being paid, no player has priority.
That might be what you are referring to, but costs are not mana abilities. While mana may be spent there, they are simply costs.
And sure, link any rules you believe are right and relevant here, that way I can understand what you're trying to say.
March 28, 2016 11:15 p.m.
lithium142 says... #6
I think I see where i confused you. You're under the impression that I believe paying a cost is an ability?
March 28, 2016 11:36 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #7
Precisely.
"you cannot respond to abilities that pay costs (paying the mana-cost and tapping the creature)"
That is what you said, and believe, correct?
March 29, 2016 12:06 a.m.
lithium142 says... #8
aahhh, gotcha. yea, bad wording on my part, then. I should have said that you cannot respond to the act of paying a cost.
So, with the change in pretext, this whole debacle makes a lot more sense now. Are we pretty much on the same page then?
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #1
You will be taking 14 damage.
Any ability that is on the stack exists independently of its source, meaning even if its source is exiled or otherwise changes zones, the ability will still resolve.
In the scenario, no matter what you do you will be taking 14. If you respond to the initial cast of the spell, he can respond by activating the creature's ability that copies it.
Your opponent can also hold priority upon casting the spell, and immediately activate the copy ability. Either way, you'll be hurting at the end of it.
March 28, 2016 6:19 p.m.