Dracogenesis and Foretell?
Asked by Quickspell 1 week ago
Can I use Edgin, Larcenous Lutenist to foretell dragons, then in a later turn cast Dracogenesis to cast those foretold dragons for free?
If yes, why is that possible? I’ve looked up 702.143d, but it’s unclear to me:
„If an effect states that a card in exile becomes foretold, that card becomes a foretold card. That effect may give the card a foretell cost. That card’s owner may look at that card as long as it remains in exile and it may be cast for any foretell cost it has after the turn it became a foretold card has ended, even if the resulting spell doesn’t have foretell.“
MTGWiki goes on to state: „If you're casting a foretold card from exile for its foretell cost, you can't choose to cast it for any other alternative costs. You can, however, pay additional costs, such as kicker costs. If the card has any mandatory additional costs, those must be paid to cast the spell.“
Is not paying at all an alternate cost to foretell costs?
Quickspell says... #2
Thank you Polaris. When you say it only lets you not pay the card‘s mana cost you mean it’s regular cost, right? Because the Foretell-cost is also a mana cost.
April 14, 2025 3:16 a.m.
Quickspell says... #3
And one more thing Polaris, you said Dracogenesis doesn't give an alternate cost, but I looked up 118.9 and it says: Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell’s text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell’s mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, “You may [action] rather than pay [this object’s] mana cost,” or “You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost.”
So it is an alternate cost and now it makes sense to me because foretell specifies that you may cast the card from exile for its foretell cost, but you are not able to cast it from exile by using other costs.
April 14, 2025 3:40 a.m.
The mana cost of a spell is specifically paying the cost listed in the top right of the card. Even if, like with Snapcaster Mage, an alternate cost is "equal to its mana cost," it's still an alternate cost. If you're paying an alternate cost, you aren't paying the mana cost, which is why Dracogenesis's "without paying its mana cost" doesn't apply.
You're correct about Dracogenesis being an alternate cost. Good catch.
A related note here is that additional costs like kicker are entirely separate from the mana cost and from alternate costs. For example, Dracogenesis would let you cast Verix Bladewing for free, or you could cast it and pay the additional to cast it kicked, in which case since you didn't pay the mana cost but you did pay the kicker cost, the total cost would be .
April 14, 2025 9:59 p.m.
Quickspell says... #5
Polaris Thank you for your help and the clarification, much appreciated!
Polaris says... Accepted answer #1
This will not work. When you cast a spell via foretell, you are not paying its mana cost, you are paying an alternative cost. Because of this, Dracogenesis doesn't apply. Dracogenesis doesn't give an alternate cost, it only lets you not pay the card's mana cost.
This is similar for abilities like flashback and escape, but other abilities that let you cast a spell from other zones without giving other costs, such as adventure or 'impulse draw' effects, will work with Dracogenesis just fine.
April 14, 2025 12:29 a.m.