Does Kytheon flip when summoned by Preeminent Captain?
Asked by Totema 8 years ago
If I understand this correctly, Preeminent Captain's ability to bring soldier creatures directly onto the battlefield attacking won't proc most "when this creature attacks" triggers because they're never considered to be declared as attackers. Kytheon, Hero of Akros Flip is a bit weird though. His ability triggers after combat and is determined by whether or not he (and some other creatures) attacked during the previous combat. Does this mean that, if he was brought onto the battlefield by Preeminent Captain, his ability will trigger?
Although there is the exception of "Attacks and isn't blocked" only requires the not being blocking, and does not require actually attacking. This, however, is not an exception. From the Gatherer rulings:
6/22/2015 Kytheon's first ability will count creatures that attacked but are no longer on the battlefield (perhaps because they didn't survive combat damage being dealt). It will not count any creatures that were put onto the battlefield attacking, as those creatures were never declared as attackers.
April 5, 2017 4:35 a.m.
@Neotrup: What you're mentioning isn't an exception, as (like you said) it cares about whether the creature is attacking, not whether it attacked (even though it's phrased differently):
An ability that triggers when something "attacks and isnt blocked" triggers in the declare blockers step after blockers are declared if (1) that creature is attacking and (2) no creatures are declared to block it. It will trigger even if that creature was put onto the battlefield attacking rather than having been declared as an attacker in the declare attackers step.
To explain the whole concept in (probably way too much) detail, consider a board state of Preeminent Captain, and 3 Glory Seekers, and that player has a Thraben Valiant in hand. They choose to attack with the Captain and two of the Glory Seekers. The Captain's trigger lets them put the Valiant from their hand on the battlefield tapped and attacking. One of the Glory Seekers is blocked in the declare blockers step by the opponent's only creature, a Runeclaw Bear. Now, in the declare blockers step, the board state is:
- there are 4 attacking creatures
- there are 3 creatures that attacked this turn (Thraben Valiant wasn't declared an attacker)
- there are 3 creatures that "attacked and weren't blocked" (one Glory Seeker was blocked)
- there are 5 creatures that weren't blocked (the Glory Seeker that didn't attacked couldn't be and wasn't blocked, and so wasn't Runeclaw Bear)
In the end of combat step, the board state is:
- there are 3 attacking creatures (one Glory Seeker was destroyed)
- there are 3 creatures that attacked this turn (this number doesn't retroactively change)
That last number is the one that Kytheon would see, though as correctly mentioned in the other answers, the ability won't trigger if Kytheon wasn't declared an attacker itself.
TheRedMage says... Accepted answer #1
It will not.
Cards that care about whether something attacked actually care about whether it was declared as an attacker as part of the Turn-Based Action that occurs at the beginning of the Declare Attackers step, not whether it was at any point an attacker. For example under a similar premise if you put Brimaz, King of Oreskos in play with captain, it won't make a token.
The trigger on Kytheon requires that he attacked. In this scenario, he never did, even if he spent some time attacking.
April 5, 2017 2:25 a.m. Edited.