Do Molten Echoes tokens ETB at the same time as the card they are copying?

Asked by Teh_Mammoth 10 months ago

1) Lets say I cast a Fanatic of Mogis whilst Molten Echoes is on the field (with Minotaurs named) and for simplicity there are no other non land cards on my side.

Fanatic of Mogis and the token both have the ETB of dealing damage equal to my devotion to red, but will the Echoes token and original Fanatic see each other as they ETB, therefore both seeing a devotion of 4? (2 from Echoes, 1 for each Fanatic)

OR

Does the original Fanatic enter first, its ETB + Molten Echoes trigger, then the token ETB and triggers? (Meaning the original Fanatic trigger sees 3 and the token sees 4)

2) Then to make things more complicated (just to clarify this whole thread), if I used Deathbellow War Cry to bring out 4 cards, lets say Fanatic of Mogis , Neheb, the Eternal , Kragma Warcaller , and Rageblood Shaman

Would the 4 originals plus 4 tokens enter at the same with 2 huge Fanatic of Mogis triggers

OR

The 4 originals enter, Fanatic of Mogis trigger resolves, then 4 tokens enter and 2nd Fanatic of Mogis resolves (followed by the legendary rule to sacrifice token Neheb)?

If I'm completely wrong in both circumstances then please explain further below if you can and I apologise for the lengthy question.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1

The Fanatic enters and both its triggered ability and that of Molten Echoes trigger. You control both, so you get to decide what order they go on the stack. Fanatic of Mogis's ability counts your devotion when it resolves, so if you order the triggers so that the copy is made first both will have a devotion of 4. If you stack them so that the damage is done first the original Fanatic's devotion will be 3.

With the War Cry you con put the Fanatic trigger at any point between the copy triggers. The copy Fanatic's ability will go on the stack as soon as it is created, so the most damage will be done by putting the original fanatic trigger on the bottom of the stack followed by the ability to copy the fanatic and then the other copy abilities. The legendary rule is a SBA so the copy Neheb will be put in the graveyard as soon as it is made, before any other trigger resolves or any player receives priority

July 16, 2020 7:22 a.m.

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