Can I choose to stop the Niv-Mizzet and Tandem Outlook loop?
Asked by DrThunderpants 12 years ago
I have a Tandem Outlook paired with a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. I tap Niv-Mizzet and proceed to burn my opponent and draw my deck. Before I deck myself, can I choose to stop this loop? Are these lapsing triggers that have beneficial effect for me and can possibly be ignored even though the word "may" is not present?
linkofhyrule says... #2
Correction to self: Niv-Mizzet can damage target creature, thereby ending the loop, as the Lookout has damage to a player to draw a card.
June 29, 2012 8:24 p.m.
darkninja107 says... #3
Do you mean Tandem Lookout? And yes, you have to draw. If it doesn't say "may" then you have to resolve the ability once the trigger happens. You can still respond to the trigger with each instance of damage dealt, so I believe you can Unsummon or Vapor Snag Tandem lookout or Niv Mizzet to stop the loop if you really need to.
June 29, 2012 8:27 p.m.
darkninja107 says... #4
And what Link said would be the better option than bouncing Niv Mizzet if creatures are available to target.
June 29, 2012 8:29 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #5
Are these lapsing triggers that have beneficial effect for me and can possibly be ignored even though the word "may" is not present?This is not a lapsing ability, and intentionally forgetting your own triggers is Fraud.
June 29, 2012 9:01 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #6
I must edit my post. The draw a card ability is not lapsing. the damage dealing one from Niv is. But either way, purposely forgetting the trigger is fraud. Though if you accidentally forget the trigger, your opponent can request it be put on the stack if it is caught in time.
June 29, 2012 9:02 p.m.
BrokenZygoma says... #8
You can use cards that shuffle into your graveyard into your library like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth with Mind Over Matter to help ensure you don't self mill and keep the combo going.
June 29, 2012 10:32 p.m.
Jokernaught says... #12
Yeah if Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind with soulbounded to Tandem Lookout with Curiosity . You activate both and to stop the loop you target tandem to stop from milling your self.
June 29, 2012 10:41 p.m.
BrokenZygoma says... #13
You could do that or just deal damage to Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and it would stop it.
June 29, 2012 10:44 p.m.
Jokernaught says... #14
Well the point would be to draw about 20 to kill your opponent. You could technically target a creature and a player and still activate both.
June 29, 2012 10:45 p.m.
BrokenZygoma says... #15
Yes I know but you really only need one. If your opponent doesn't have responses, you're going infinite anyway. No need to go overkill, just keep one at a time so if you need to stop it you can just hit Niv once and end it if you need to.
June 29, 2012 10:48 p.m.
BrokenZygoma says... #18
So to answer the original question, YES, you can end the loop by dealing the 1 damage to Niv-Mizzet, stopping the effect from Tandem Lookout from drawing another card.
June 30, 2012 12:43 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #19
You may not choose to forget Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind 's triggered ability. This is a rules infraction and will be dealt with accordingly if you are playing at an event. Since the word "may" is not present, the actions specified by the ability are mandatory. The loop will end when you run out of cards to draw, when your opponent has lost the game, or when you perform an action that causes the ability to stop triggering. You can do that by targeting a creature with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind 's ability (the loop requires you to deal damage to an opponent to draw a card), bouncing Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or Tandem Lookout (thereby removing the source of the ability), or countering the triggered ability.
linkofhyrule says... #1
Tandem Lookout , Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind .I think that without a "may", you aren't allowed to end the damage/draw loop. However, it will end, if you deal lethal damage to the opponent(Your opponent has 20 life, and you have just looped 20 draws). There is a possibility of self-deckout, but that's only for a really long game, or if your opponent has a lot of lifelink/life gain.
June 29, 2012 8:22 p.m.