Why Does Phasing Not Trigger Abilities?
General forum
Posted on June 9, 2020, 11:42 a.m. by DemonDragonJ
I had not yet begun playing this game when phasing was being used, but, apparently, permanents phasing in and out does not cause abilities to trigger that would normally trigger when a permanent enters or leaves the battlefield, but why is that? Technically speaking, they are entering and leaving the battlefield, so I do not understand why they do not trigger such abilities.
What does everyone here say about this? Why do permanents phasing in and out not cause abilities to trigger?
One of my favorite old phasing cards is Crystal Golem and it causes confusion for every younger player and I have to sit down and explain phasing to them, basically just pretend it doesn't exist while its phased is kinda the short of it :)
June 9, 2020 1:01 p.m.
Technically speaking, they are not entering and leaving the battlefield.
Rule 702.25d:
The phasing event doesn’t actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it’s treated as though it’s not on the battlefield and not under its controller’s control while it’s phased out. Zone-change triggers don’t trigger when a permanent phases in or out. Tokens continue to exist on the battlefield while phased out. Counters remain on a permanent while it’s phased out. Effects that check a phased-in permanent’s history won’t treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or enter the battlefield or its controller’s control.
June 9, 2020 1:07 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
Caerwyn, TypicalTimmy, that is very confusing, and that must be the reason for which the mechanic has not been used in many years, and, with that being said, why is WotC bringing it back, now? "Flicker" effects (i.e., exile and then return a permanent) are much easier to understand, so they should be used, instead.
June 9, 2020 4:37 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
TypicalTimmy, in that case, I can accept it being Teferi's signature mechanic, but I really do not wish for it to become evergreen, or even deciduous, again; as long as it appears on only a few cards, I will be content.
I also really hope that this does not lead WotC to reviving other old mechanics, such as horsemanship or banding, which were retired for good reasons. However, I would like to see cumulative upkeep return, because it makes players employ better strategies, provided that any card with that mechanic rewards the player based upon how many times that they payed the upkeep cost.
June 9, 2020 4:51 p.m.
Horsemenship is unlikely to return, except maybe as a flavorful way to do "Unblockable" in a Commander product. The mechanic was a bit of a fluke to begin with--it was introduced as a replacement for Flying in a set where Flying did not make flavorful sense.
As for Banding, I would love to see Banding return in a supplemental set. Sure, it's a bit complicated, but it (a) provides important game balance by giving you a way to defend completely against Trample, and (b) has the potential for some fun shenanigans.
Banding's big problem is not the ability's complexity, it's that we have so few banding cards and all of them are from an era where creatures were overcosted and lacking complexity, so they are all pretty much unplayable and not designed to fully take advantage of the ability itself.
I'll accept I'm in the minority on this one though.
June 9, 2020 4:59 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - You could also put all 4 damage on your 1/1, leaving both the 2/2 and 3/3 unscathed.
June 9, 2020 5:49 p.m.
Ok as far as horsemanship goes I would actually love to see that cause that would most likely meas portal three kingdom reprints, and as a HUGE dynasty warriors fan(I own every one as well as Samurai warriors) I have wanted this very badly lol, I almost bought a sealed PTK box but couldn't justify the price point :(
June 9, 2020 6 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - It doesn’t have to be, thought typically the attacking player will always roll their damage over. This is also why Banding stops trample - if you block an 8/8 with Trample with a 1/1 with Banding, Defending player can assign all 8 points to the 1/1, and 0 to themselves.
In fact, with Banding, you don’t even have to assign lethal damage before hitting the next creature.
So, if that 4/4 was being blocked by four 2/2s, at least one with Banding (or the 4/4 was blocking a band of 4 2/2s) you could assign 1 damage to each, and have them all survive.
June 9, 2020 7:04 p.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #11
"'Flicker' effects (i.e., exile and then return a permanent) are much easier to understand, so they should be used, instead."
They are not nearly the same type of effect though. Just off the top of my head, with no forethought
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Phased permanents will retain counters and equipment/auras.
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Phased permanents are not able to be interacted with at all until your next upkeep in an elegant way.
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Phased permanents do not have summoning sickness when they return.
You are simply unfamiliar with phasing, that is why it seems odd. Phasing is no harder to understand than any other mechanic.
June 9, 2020 8:23 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Gidgetimer, if that is true, why did WotC stop using that mechanic for many years?
June 9, 2020 9:54 p.m.
Yeah no, ive always found it (and banding) to be the hardest to explain to people, weather it is more complicated or not the people at wizards had the same experience that I've had and it just seems to not be an intuitive interaction, as I said before I played with Crystal Golem a lot so it made sense to me but because phasing also isn't super common people could go play against 100 deck and never see it used thus never needing an explanation even when it was "common".
June 9, 2020 10:31 p.m.
Oh boy I hope we see some more of the old confusing mechanics come back. Come on Banding XD lol.
sergiodelrio says... #2
Imagine it to be much closer to 'shroud'. It's basically super-shroud with indestructible and 'loses all other abilities'. You treat it as if it weren't there, when in fact it is. Not changing zones either, hence no triggers.
June 9, 2020 12:28 p.m.