What Happens When an Attacker is Removed from Combat?
General forum
Posted on April 1, 2013, 2:21 p.m. by Taytora
I can't seem to find an answer to this question -everyone talks about blockers being removed (after they have been declared, but before the combat damage step), but no one mentions attackers (unless the same principles apply).
Let's say attackers have been declared, but combat damage has not yet been dealt yet. I remove creature A during this period. What happens...is the combat phase over? Do I still declare blockers which then deal damage to the player? Do my already declared blockers fizzle or deal damage to the player?
Thanks!
TheLameSauce says... #3
You do bring up a question I'm uncertain of the answer for though; if someone enters their combat phase, is there any situation where there may be no attacking creatures, but you still move to the declare blockers and/or combat damage stage?
April 1, 2013 2:31 p.m.
Thanks for the answer! Hopefully someone can address the other question for us.
April 1, 2013 2:37 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
In the most literal sense, a creature that changes controllers during combat will be removed from combat, and combat will continue. That creature will have still attacked, but it will no longer be attacking.
If no creatures are declared as attackers or otherwise become attacking creatures, the game proceeds directly to the end of combat as per 508.6.
508.6. If no creatures are declared as attackers or put onto the battlefield attacking, skip the declare blockers and combat damage steps.
April 1, 2013 4:09 p.m.
So, let me see if I follow. If there are no attaching creatures, or all attacking creatures are removed before the declare blockers step, then the game proceeds directly to the end of combat, correct?So what happens if all attacking creatures are removed after the declare blockers step, but before combat damage -still a little hazy here
April 2, 2013 11:17 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
The rule given by Epochalyptik is the only situation where steps of the Combat phase get skipped. In your new example, the game will still go through the combat damage step (of course, creatures not in combat at that time can't deal or be dealt any combat damage).
April 2, 2013 12:54 p.m.
TheLameSauce says... #8
Ok, so as long creatures were declared attacking at some point and then for some reason removed from combat in some way (like from an AEtherize or something) then you still proceed to blocking and combat damage steps?
April 2, 2013 6:24 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #9
Yes, that's right. Out of curiosity, why exactly are you asking this question?
April 2, 2013 11:10 p.m.
I'm asking since I'm still new to mtg -just want to be sure I understand how things work properly
April 3, 2013 11:40 a.m.
TheLameSauce says... #11
Just out of curiosity myself. I've been slowly learning quite a lot about the more intricate rulings in the game the last few months, and it's very exciting for some (very nerdy) reason.
April 3, 2013 1:57 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #12
yes combat carries on like normal, it's even possible for the creature to carry on and deal damage to it's opponent after it left the field, if it was removed after damage was locked in, but this rarely happens.
April 3, 2013 3:31 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
@Schuesseled: Combat damage can't be dealt by creatures that are no longer on the battlefield. The first thing that happens in the combat damage step is the assignment and dealing of damage as a turn-based action. Creatures that aren't on the battlefield can't do combat damage.
April 3, 2013 3:43 p.m.
TheLameSauce says... #14
Yeah, that was something that I was taught to take advantage of before they changed the way it worked, IE: I block with a Duergar Assailant , but after damage is dealt but before it resolves, I sac to deal damage. Damage no longer resolves like this though, which is probably for the best.
April 3, 2013 3:47 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #15
@Epochalyptik are you sure, i thought after combat damage had been "locked in" that it's not possible to change the amount that would be dealt...
April 3, 2013 3:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
I don't know what you mean by "locked in." As a turn-based action, damage is assigned and then dealt. Because this process is turn-based, it doesn't use the stack, and players cannot do anything in response. You can't assign combat damage to or from a creature that isn't on the battlefield.
April 3, 2013 3:54 p.m.
Here's the rundown of the combat phase over on the MTG Salvation Wiki.
So to answer your question Schuesseled (if I think I understand you correctly), you're able to add spells and abilities to the stack after blockers have been declared. Once both players are done playing spells and abilities and move to the Combat Damage Step, all creatures do their damage which does not go on the stack. Which means, you're not allowed to add spells or abilities onto the stack. I think this is what you mean by "locked-in."
Your last opportunity to activate abilities or cast spells is right after blockers have been declared, but before damage is dealt. Combat damage used to go on the stack the way TheLameSauce described, but they have since changed it to where you can no longer do that.
April 3, 2013 5:30 p.m.
I'm more confused now than I was before reading. One quick question. If I declare attackers, would the opponent have to AEtherize , Murder , etc before blocking? And if not, then would my creatures or theirs still be dealt damage and/or die?
April 3, 2013 5:50 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
Both players must pass priority before the game progresses to the next step or phase. Each player will receive priority during the declare blockers step, so each player may cast spells and activate abilities after blocks but before damage.
All damage in a single combat damage step is dealt simultaneously.
April 3, 2013 5:54 p.m.
@dbrannon: Yes, they can AEtherize or Murder before blocking during the Declare Blockers step or after attacks have been declared during Declare Attacks step. They can do either before attackers are declared, although AEtherize wouldn't do anything.
April 3, 2013 6:44 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
@sylvannos: I believe you mean after in both cases. No player receives priority in the declare blockers step until after blockers have been declared. Same for the declare attackers step. The processes of declaring attackers and blockers are turn-based actions that don't use the stack and happen immediately in their appropriate steps.
April 3, 2013 6:47 p.m.
@Epochalyptik: Yeah, sorry. I should have been more specific with my language.
April 3, 2013 6:48 p.m.
May I attempt a summary post now, to ensure I follow?
1. So, if no attackers are declared at any point (or enter the field attacking -example of this happening?) then the game progresses straight to the end of combat.
2. Both players will received priority to cast spells or activate abilities before declare attackers step, after declare attackers step, and after declare blockers step (and after combat damage has been dealt).
3. If attackers have been declared (whether they are removed or not at anytime before the combat damage step), then the game will still progress through the combat steps. (any creatures (blockers or attackers) not on the field during the combat damage step cannot deal damage ...an attacker that has been blocked will remain blocked though, even if that blocker has been removed)
4. Defenders can never deal damage to a player (or planeswalker) unless a card specifies (card example??)
Do I follow correctly?
April 4, 2013 7:49 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #24
All of that is correct. Here are some additional notes on what you said, just to make everything completely clear:
- The rule posted earlier by Epochalyptik gives the exact definition for what situation will cause steps of combat to be skipped and which specific steps get skipped. If you want an example of an effect causing a creature to enter the battlefield attacking see Geist of Saint Traft , Kaalia of the Vast , Preeminent Captain , any Ninja, etc.
- At the beginning of each step and phase (other than untap and cleanup), after turn-based actions have been completed (drawing in the draw step, declaring attackers, declaring blockers, assigning and dealing combat damage) the active player gets priority. The game won't move to the next step or phase until all players pass in succession over an empty stack.
- If the current situation isn't the one defined by the aforementioned rule, no steps get skipped.
- Only an attacking unblocked creature or a blocked creature with trample and high enough power can successfully assign and deal combat damage to a defending player or planeswalker.
TheLameSauce says... #2
Combat would resume as though the removed attacker had never attacked, except any creatures declared as blocking before it left would still be considered blocking creatures. Blocking creatures don't deal damage to players in any instance, unless otherwise stated by some other effect. Hope this helps
April 1, 2013 2:28 p.m.