Phyrexian Dreadnought (poorly worded card?)
General forum
Posted on July 3, 2011, 7:29 p.m. by Regiment47
Phyrexian Dreadnought Card Type: Artifact Creature
Creature Type: Dreadnought
Power/Toughness:12/12
Casting Cost: 1
Card Text: Trample
When Phyrexian Dreadnought comes into play, sacrifice any number of creatures with total power of 12 or more, or bury Phyrexian Dreadnought.
Oracle Text: TrampleWhen Phyrexian Dreadnought enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you sacrifice any number of creatures with total power 12 or greater.
Artist: Pete Venters
Rarity: Rare
I think this poorly worded, but simple definitions. Sacrifice it unless you sac any number of creatures 12 or greater?
loop holes?
If you have 2 or even 3 creatures above a power 12 or greater, does this card suggest that you must sac them all? because any number can mean sac 1. As a matter of fact, 0 happens to be a number as well, last i checked at least. If cards do as said, without any interventionist rules, Phyrexian Dreadnought can be played on turn one, and be used legitimately. just saying.
Regiment47 says... #3
and if there are no creatures 12 or more, then doesn't that make it okay simply play him by sacrificing the number 0 creatures 12 or more? i mean honestly. im right. lol
July 3, 2011 7:33 p.m.
brianguymtg says... #4
Total Power means that after you add the power of the sacrificed creatures, that should equal at least twelve. Were you to have too few creatures to add to 12 power, then you would have to sac the dreadnaught. That's how that works. Although, I like the way you think!
July 3, 2011 7:56 p.m.
However, the wording of the card (as stated immediately previously) does allow for some shenanigans - Pandemonium comes to mind, as does Stifle .
July 3, 2011 9:16 p.m.
brianguymtg says... #6
Yes, as an ETB ability, it can be countered, also Torpor Orb sounds like a great card to help out...
July 3, 2011 9:27 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #7
Lol that would be lolzzzzzzz. THere are a lot of cards with similar requirements.
July 4, 2011 12:32 a.m.
mozerdozer says... #8
Also bury = sacrifice. Bury means shuffle it into your deck so I'm not sure why the oracle text is wrong.
July 4, 2011 12:33 a.m.
By far the best loophole for this guy is Torpor Orb . Well that's if I understand it correctly.
And then you can go ahead and add Hunted Horror in the same deck and laugh maniacally.
July 4, 2011 1:41 a.m.
brianguymtg says... #10
@mozerdozer: Burymeans put into your graveyard, not library
July 4, 2011 7:29 a.m.
AegairEtapa says... #11
Bury meant something different to our current rules. Thus with the rewording most cases of the word bury was errated to destroy, in this case however, sacrifice was more appropriate.
July 4, 2011 8:50 a.m.
Well, by not sacrificing any (read 0) you're NOT sacrificing ANY. See what I mean?
"Did you sacrifice any?""No, I sacrificed 0.""So...you didn't sacrifice any?"
You can't get around "any" by saying 0 is any.
July 4, 2011 12:20 p.m.
Regiment47 says... #13
Yes you can because it says "Any Number" and 0 is a number
July 4, 2011 5:25 p.m.
So you're saying that because you phrase the sentence as,"I sacrifice zero creatures with total power twelve or greater."It's the same as saying:"I sacrifice a number of creatures with total power twelve or greater."
But I see the phrasing as,"I don't sacrifice any number of creatures."
Both times the number is zero. So even if you're also correct, I'm still correct lol.
I do sacrifice (0).I don't sacrifice (0).
So if logic is your major argument, that's fine. I understand that you're trying to get around the oracle text's wording by changing your own. But in the event of a real match, I'm sure the judge would say something like this:"If you don't sacrifice at least one creature with power twelve or greater total, he's sacrificed when he enters the battlefield."
July 5, 2011 1:31 a.m.
The_Murderauder says... #15
See above. I understand your logic, and it's pretty clever.
I think what you're missing is that when it says "any number of creatures with total power 12 or greater", it doesn't mean any number of creatures that each have a power greater than 12, it means any amount of creatures that have a combined power of 12 or greater. See? It's not asking you to declare a number, then sacrifice that many. The number of creatures you sacrifice has nothing to do with it. You can sac twelve 1/1s, one 12/12, a 5/5 and a 7/7, or a hundred-thousand 0/1s and three 4/4s. It just has to add up to twelve.
Regiment47 says... #2
by simple definitions***
July 3, 2011 7:30 p.m.