Just Announced MM 2015 can be Re-ordered
Economics forum
Posted on May 25, 2015, 7:58 p.m. by WovenNebula
I'd like to know with this knowledge if people think prices then will drop further, since packs and boxes are easily attainable.
HolyFalcon says... #3
So basically MM15 isn't going up anytime soon, glad to hear. Now I don't have to worry about getting tons of money for drafts right now!
May 25, 2015 8:20 p.m.
That's pretty disappointing for people who have already sunk a good chunk of money in. Seems like Wizards should have announced that from the beginning.
May 25, 2015 8:44 p.m.
I like this...
I already bought 4 boxes, and may consider buying more.If they go down, it will be almost a sure thing.
May 25, 2015 8:54 p.m.
Thank god. I hope this showcases WotC's future plans for modern. That is, they will continue to make reorders of Modern Masters sets available for awhile after each MM sets initial printing.
It's worth mentioning that this decision could just be due to the low QC of the first print of Modern Masters 2015.
May 25, 2015 9:52 p.m.
This is great news.
Does anyone have any idea how far Cryptic Command's gonna drop?? :)
May 25, 2015 10:04 p.m. Edited.
How is this good news? They're just going to devalue the shit out of modern staples and screw over anyone who's invested in the format. Thanks a lot wizards.
May 25, 2015 10:15 p.m.
It makes Modern more accessible to the masses. My LGS has a limited number of proxies for most Modern tournaments (about 10), why? Because Modern staples, cards that you NEED to make your deck playable competitively are like $50 each. It opens up the format to more people and draws more people in. :)
May 25, 2015 10:20 p.m.
I agree that you're right in saying that they should have announced it earlier though. :)
May 25, 2015 10:24 p.m.
Yeah, and screws over the people who were already in. There's a difference between getting more copies into circulation (which was the original stated intent) and flooding the market with an effectively unlimited print run and completely devaluing players' collections. If they actually follow through with this, tons of players will be very upset.
May 25, 2015 10:24 p.m.
SimicPower says... #12
And tons of players will be very happy. There is some give and take.
May 25, 2015 10:28 p.m.
Hmmmm... screw over the long time customers who were willing to throw down hundreds/thousands of dollars in order to garner the interest of new customers who weren't willing to spend that money. Doesn't seem like the best business strategy.
May 25, 2015 10:35 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #14
So I'm disappointed to hear that there are fairly numerous quality control issues with the first run of the set...
That said, I'm happy that more (hopefully quality-corrected) runs are being made possible.
The debate about the devaluation of Modern staples is a contentious one, but I believe that the format will improve if the barrier to entry is lowered. More players will get involved. I feel for players who will see their collections fall in price due to these developments. I still feel that it's more important to make format staples available so that the game can be played by a wider variety of interested players. "Reserve list"-type policies ultimately injure the game. Part of Magic's appeal is that highly-valued objects can be up for grabs, and that's totally legitimate. But moderation here is important. I think something is wrong when folks need upwards of $500-$600 to use a playset of Tarmogoyf. That's just me.
May 25, 2015 10:38 p.m.
I agree that its nice to get more copies of the cards into circulation, and try to keep up with demand so new players can get into the format. Which is why I was in favor of MM2015 when first announced. Its fine to release format staples in a limited print run. But if they're going to make this effectively an unlimited print run, they will be completely devaluing players' collections worth literally thousands of dollars. That's just not right, and its not good business sense. I'm hoping that this isn't actually the case, and its just a miscommunication. If it isn't, Wizards is making a huge mistake.
May 25, 2015 10:53 p.m.
SimicPower says... #16
kmcree: I will agree that they should have announced it to begin with. In terms of a business plan, for sets that sell out like Modern Masters, printing more will just make them sell more and make more money. Supporting new players is also good for long term growth of the game.
May 25, 2015 10:57 p.m.
I can just imagine the amount of complaining that'll happen when they reprint Snapcaster Mage. I mean, you all know it's gonna happen sooner or later right? Considering they reprinted Tarmogoyf, again, so I'm fairly confident that they are going to reprint Snapcaster Mage as well.
As others have said the barrier is a real issue. While it's nice knowing that my Snaps that I inadvertently picked up from drafting or buying fat packs are worth serious bucks today, and that it saves considerable cash while getting into modern, I don't consider that a good thing when it keeps new players from getting into modern.
Also you've got to consider that while everyone keeps saying that reprinting modern cards is only about getting a profit for WotC it's not just in the way that most people assume. Sure WotC wants some cash and they know they can get it by reselling extremely valuable cards but that's not the whole story. WotC also realizes that if they want the modern format to continue they can't let the prices get to out of hand.
Look at small shops who have an average of 20-40 players for Standard tournaments. Those same shops usually have around half for Modern and even less for legacy or no legacy tournaments at all. WotC understands that by reprinting staples, expensive or not, they are keeping more clients in these gaming shops. More clients in gaming shops means more locations to sell MTG boosters/fatpacks/decks/boxes. Not only that but plenty of modern players occasionally indulge in standard buying boosters in some form as well.
May 25, 2015 10:58 p.m.
SimicPower says... #18
It also doesn't seem like it will be an unlimited print run, just that there will be more of it. So that means no $10 Cryptic Commands. So, sorry/yeah! depending on who is reading this.
May 25, 2015 10:59 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #19
I don't think they're intending to open the floodgates. I don't think it's a nigh-unlimited print run, just an extension of an still-limited print plan.
They need to change this bogus "green-friendly" packaging though. I ordered my first box today and I will be incensed if anything has been tampered with or the contents are damaged. That's just inexcusable for a company that's been doing this for 22+ years.
May 25, 2015 10:59 p.m.
Yeah I didn't much care for the packaging. My first thought when I bought the only pack I got was "So..how long can these sit in a shop before the humidity causes them to be damaged upon opening?". (I live in Virginia, there are some days where despite constant AC circulation the inside of our shop is foggy due to humidity.)
May 25, 2015 11:01 p.m.
SimicPower says... #21
The packaging was awful, I really wish they had tried this on any other set. The one box I saw opened had many of the cards nicked. Luckily, none of the nicked cards were worth over $20. Unfortunately, the reason for this was that there were no cards over $20 in the box, save for one Tarmogoyf that happened to be spared from the harshness of the packaging.
May 25, 2015 11:08 p.m.
I feel like this was to be expected. The idea is to attract more people to the format while making cards more accessible. A limited print run does nothing to saturate the market and actually lower the price of cards that may be getting out of hand, especially as interest in the format increases. The first Modern Masters is a prime example of this. As the interest in the format grew so did the price of the staple cards in the set because not only did they need those cards, they needed multiple copies of them. Basically it created more demand than it did supply and the first set did little to make cards more accessible because there still wasn't enough to go around. When I initially heard that they were going to still do a limited print (just slightly larger than the first) I thought that was the dumbest mistake they could make and it felt like they learned absolutely nothing from the first set.
May 25, 2015 11:14 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #23
kmcree, if you want cards as an investment that will never be reprinted, buy things on the reserve list.
If you're getting modern staples, there's an understanding that things will be reprinted - you can't complain about them being devalued; you knew what you were getting in to.
May 25, 2015 11:28 p.m.
Named_Tawyny: That's not really a fair statement. At all. Yes, there has been an understanding that Wizards will reprint staples. But up until now, they've always done so in a judicious manner, using limited print runs, promo releases, etc. Whipping out the value of a player's entire collection with a single set was never part of the bargain. Players will be upset, and they are completely justified. I'll complain all I damn well please.
May 25, 2015 11:43 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #25
Secondary market does little to help wizards though. Those who invest heavily in a format are just hoarding staples, and that is counterproductive to what they are trying to accomplish. Some people are sitting on way more staples then they need, so the supply is very low.
I understand chronicles, and what happened in the past, but that is just how I see it. The game is growing at a large rate, and many of those staples are tough to justify in a standard environment. If you jostle the system of hoarding staples a bit, maybe they will flow more freely.
May 25, 2015 11:58 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #26
@kmcree as a player that's heavily invested in modern, it's good that'll it get more people in, the bad is investments will drop, however, personally I'm not in it for the quick flips and I believe over time my investments will grow again. Wizards did state this will be a larger print run and I think between the combination of quality control issues and being a larger print run, that may be the reason for this. I still believe it will be a limited print run although it'll be somewhere between a modern masters print run and a standard print run, guessing it'll be in the middle.
May 26, 2015 12:59 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #27
Fair point and I agree.
I'm just hoping they address the QC issues. As customers, we should vocalize our displeasure with this. And if that's not enough to elicit a policy change, then refusals to purchase will.
May 26, 2015 1:18 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #28
Don't trip, pretty much any staple that didn't get reprinted will rise in price to balance out the cards that drop...
May 26, 2015 3:11 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #29
kmcree sure, and if they don't print staples, other players will complain. Neither is a 'bad' choice, it's just a matter of if they're going to care more about players or investors. So far, they've been leaning towards the investors (otherwise 'goyf wouldn't have been a mythic, if they were balancing MM15 for draft), but increasing the print run is a small small step towards rebalancing that slightly, IMNAAHO.
May 26, 2015 7:24 a.m.
magic_monicle says... #30
@kmcree : oh please, shut up! If you really want to "invest" in things go to the stock market. This is a card game intended to get as many players into the game as possible. This is great news to my shop and the community in my area because now we actually have a chance at getting format staples.
Like others have stated, if you want to "invest" in this game you need to hit up the reserved list. Modern masters is making WOTC tons of money and I see it being an every other year type of set. In the end WOTC is a business and in it for the $$. Let some of the newer players get access to some good cards before you cry about losing a couple bucks.
May 26, 2015 5:14 p.m.
I agree with APPLE01DOJ. Except I think that it will get more players into the format, which will push prices of ALL modern staples higher. Investors should go to the reserved list.
May 26, 2015 5:51 p.m.
magic_monicle: First off, I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you do. Don't tell me to shut up. Secondly, I'm not complaining because I view Magic as an investment and I lost money. I don't. I'm upset because I spent a lot of money building up a nice collection so I could play Modern competitively, and Wizards is (potentially) in the process of devaluing that collection. I'm in the game to play it, not purely to collect. But you spend your hard earned cash to purchase stapes to play with, and then see that money flushed down the drain, and you'll be upset too. I'm far from the only Modern player to have these concerns. Just because you didn't pony up the cash to play the format in the first place doesn't give you any right to bitch about barrier to entry. And for reference, its not a matter of a couple bucks. Its a matter of hundreds.
May 26, 2015 6:52 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #33
Its a card game we're talking about. Wizards was sure to reprint staples some time. And they did. If you don't want to lose more, offload when staples are spoiled and buy them back when they're low.
May 26, 2015 7:06 p.m.
magic_monicle says... #34
Sorry wasn't trying to be offensive to anyone. But I guess for the community I'm in (Birmingham, AL) the modern scene is relatively small and it's nice that people that enjoy or want to get into modern get the chance. Modern isn't really my cup of tea. I'm more into edh and standard(which is a huge waste of money) but standard is so huge around here it's really the only thing that is played at fnm. Luckily I can pay for most of my decks by selling out the previous block staples and or store credit by winning tourneys. Hopefully with the extended release we seem to be having more people can enter the modern format... We shall see
May 26, 2015 7:13 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #35
What you got for spending money when it was worth more was the ability to play with those cards sooner. The value of your collection isn't guaranteed; neither is the value of my collection.
I spent the money because I wanted the cards, and I wanted to play with those cards then. It's a sunk cost now; I won't complain if the value tanks, so long as the fun continues; you shouldn't either, IMO.
May 26, 2015 7:15 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #36
kmcree You definitely have a valid point but as long as you're not looking for a quick flip you'll be fine, better than fine actually. Short term drops but long term rises due to a much higher demand created by new players coming in to the format off of MM2. Also, as previously stated, your staples that didn't see a reprint will make up for the difference for now.
May 27, 2015 11:18 a.m.
sorry if someone else said it, but it DOES NOT SAY that print run was larger, or there was another print run, it says boxes can be reordered.
Many stores get allocated a certain number of boxes, for example store A and store B can both order 12 boxes of mm2. Store A orders all twelve, while store B is small, and has little intersted but orders 4 boxes. Now after all the shipping is offically done, the distributor has 8 extra boxes it didnt sell. Now they say hey store A do you want 4 boxes of MM2 and store B do you want 4 boxes of MM2? and there is another shipment/order.
the way some allocations work with multiple distributors, product may only have 1 print run, but may be reordered as stores dont order it, or some shadier distributors, might have cases sitting around and in 6 months "find some mm2 boxes"
May 27, 2015 11:45 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #38
Are you sure this is the case, mckin? I thought it was understood that an expansion of the print run was going to happen alongside some redresses regarding the quality control issues.
May 27, 2015 11:56 a.m.
My LGS knew months ago that they would be getting 2 orders of MM2015.
The maximum order size for the first order was based on the stores rating (based on previous sales and tournament participation, etc), the second order is distributor based... the distributors get allocated (or can request) an amount of stock, which they then distribute among their region.
It was announced by Wizards, long before release, that this set would be "limited, but not as limited as the original Modern Masters".
I don't know why one stores online announcement that they will be receiving more product is such big news, nor why it would cause so many complaints and arguments/debates.
May 27, 2015 12:53 p.m.
AngryBearTony says... #43
I'm not too sure what the print size was going to be on the boxes, but my LGS got 75 boxes in their initial shipment, and was able to reorder the full amount they got first time around. I don't know if 75 is a big number, but the store is not huge, so I was happy they had so much product. Make of that what you will, though, but it seems the printing is bigger than was anticipated.
ChrisH says... #2
I think its a good move, people can have MM2 cards easily now. Thumbs up to Wizards.
May 25, 2015 8:09 p.m.