But the Overlord can just tutor for the Queen which can in turn still go infinite. Doesn't the versatility count for something?

The problem is the infinite combo in the command zone is a lot more efficient than the tutor. Waiting a turn or spending 5-7 mana to combo off makes it less efficient to me.

Fair enough. I guess in true, competitive EDH, the efficiency just really is that important! Thanks!

Well, to be fair, Sliver Queen wouldn't be a devoted sliver deck, so even the best tribe in magic is still not as good as a mediocre infinite combo deck in commander.

Azami is pretty good tribal and stands against decent combos, krenko not as much but worth mentioning

@Ifeno it's better to pay 5 mana for part of your win condition than to spend 13 mana for that sane part of your win condition (8 mana tutoring plus another 5 for the queen herself). Pretty straightforward.

If Overlord is just being used to tutor part of your wincon, which is a 5c legendary creature, then why not just run it in the command zone?

If Overlord is not being used to tutor your wincon, then why play it? How are you winning the game?

That is why Overlord is worse.

The best tribe in magic IS a mediocre infinite combo deck in commander - Azami wizard tribal with Mind Over Matter.

"mediocre"

triggered

MEDIOCRE?!

And damnit people, we JUST did a comment reset!

p0megranates for slivers it depends on your deck build. If you build a deck around infinite mana combo then sliver overlord is better. Bc win infinite mana I can do everything.

With sliver queen as she is a better Aggro/creature combo deck it's not letting you tutor dork the pieces you need. In either case u are still waiting until u can combo off to cast ur commander.

Leo elfball is decent (strong tier 2), but yeah...Leo is better off not going that route. Competitive Azami isn't really wizard tribal. It has what 15 creatures in the deck? In my opinion the best Tribe for cEDH by far is human reanimator tribal.

It is important to keep in mind that most cEDH decks are not really built around its commander much. To do so is often a liability. Even Zur is usually just Necropotence in the command zone. Sliver queen is simply better to have in a non sliver deck, but no competitive deck would run either if not for the colors. Now that 4 color generals exist I feel like most 5 color decks have lost most of thier luster. That 5th color really adds very little and it strains the mana base horribly. I see very little reason to keep Scion in tier 1 as a 5 color combo placeholder as most 4 color brews will be faster with almost no drawbacks. Heck even food chain Tazri is a 4 color deck.

@ZomBee_Hunt Obviously who is better depends on how you build it. But building Sliver Overlord that way is competitively inferior to building Sliver Queen the other way. Hence, Sliver Queen is t2 and the others slivers are not. The ranking of the sliver commanders is fine as it remains. That's all I'm saying really.

Anyway, to put this tribal thing to rest, I think cEDH players can all agree that the three best tribal decks in commander are:

• Blazing fast combo tribal
• Mana/resource denial tribal
• A little bit of both of the above tribal

Azami is among the best tribal themed decks, but wizards as a tribe aren't nearly as supported as slivers, guys.

And girls.

And here is where I was hoping to make a joke about the fact that guys outnumber girls 4:1 in the community (if not more), but it's actually legitimately sad. Why so few girls?

@MagicalHacker You're opening a whole can of worms there that's probably not appropriate for this discussion thread and could lead to a flame war as it often does wherever else it's brought up. There are probably a lot of factors and anyone who thinks there's just one answer might as well be selling you snake oil. I think there's a place to discuss gender dynamics in the MtG community but a thread where we shoot the shit about cEDH tier rankings might not be that place, especially since the lack of female players isn't exclusive to cEDH.

MagicalHacker: You sure you wanna open that can of worms?

Edit: Damnit, beaten to using the same exact line. Nooooooo.

Im guessing the discrepancy is due to the fact that most magic players are awkward guys with questionable social skills. Moreover, many women are dismissed and/or treated with scorn when they do play magic among men and act like dickwads when they lose "to a girl." I've heard poor hygiene is also a factor. Im guessing none of those factors appeal to women much? Of course I am not talking about any you fine individuals, just those casual edh-ers.

EDIT: Oops I opened the can and spilled it on the floor

"fine individuals", haha I like this guy.

does anyone know a proper sen triplets list ?

Lilbrudder - In your edit, you could have just deleted the content of your post :P

What is the fun in that?

and btw your Sharuum the Hegemon list isn't working anymore ;)

Kiyomeii just take the Zur Doomsday list, remove Oblivion Ring and Grasp of Fate, and replace them with Chromatic Lantern and a bounce spell. A storm combo can work with any Esper commander and it's usually the best option (the only exception I can think of is Sharuum). The only reason it's listed under Zur is because he grabs Necropotence whenever he attacks, so it's the best one by a large margin. Sen Triplets could also be decent for the strategy though - if you need gas and your opponent has something juicy in hand, you can play it from their hand and get your combo going that way.

walking around that can of worms

I might work on sharuum if i could figure out the rest of my cuts to my other ones

In my deck I use Oona, Queen of the Fae as my commander and its a deck that focuses on mill and very heavy hitters. its Black and Blue do you think that this is the best commander for my deck. Faerie