vanish into memory madness
Asked by PremiumWall 9 years ago
Lets say I Vanish into Memory
a Serra Avatar
. I draw cards and all that fun stuff and then my upkeep comes around.
When the Serra Avatar
enters can i respond and kill it (Murder
) in an attempt to fizzle the second part of the Vanish into Memory
ability so i don't discard cards.
If I can't because I don't get priority at any point (thats the only reason i feel that i couldn't do this), what if there was a ETB trigger on the field like a Cathars' Crusade , could i respond to that trigger to kill the avatar in my desperate attempt to not discard cards.
EddCrawley says... #2
Of course, you could always tip the scales in your favour by using something like Turn / Burn so you only have to discard 1 card.
July 21, 2014 5:02 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
@EddCrawley: Only if the reenter and the discard are two separate DTAs, which I'm not sure they are.
Rhadamanthus, do you know?
July 21, 2014 7:42 a.m.
EddCrawley says... #4
True, and it would depend who owns the creature, as if it is your opponent, then you could do some damage to your opponent during yours and his turn (assuming you cast Vanish into Memory during your main phase, then when it returns it will have much lower power and toughness. As your opponent will have lost life.
eg, your opponent has 10 life and has out a Serra Avatar 10/10, you cast Vanish into Memory and draw 10 cards. before your next upkeep you deal, say, 6 damage to your opponent so the Avatar comes back into play as a 4/4, making you discard 4 cards.
Would this be ok? as numbers are checked upon resolution , rather than when the spells are cast?
July 21, 2014 11:10 a.m.
gary1976us says... #5
It would seem to me that the reenter and discard are not two seperate DTAs (not 100% sure though). I don't think that game will let you NOT pay the full price of the card. The only way that comes to my mind to lessen this (I could be wrong) is to use madness cards so you can cast them while having to discard them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please
July 21, 2014 11:10 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
There's only one delayed triggered ability, and as usual it starts with "When/Whenever/At". The discard is part of that ability's effect. Once the ability starts resolving, no one has priority to take an action until it's completely finished.
July 21, 2014 11:11 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
Sorry, I didn't see the secondary question about Cathars' Crusade or some other ETB trigger.
A triggered ability will trigger whenever the appropriate event happens, but it's only put onto the stack the next time a player gets priority. If the returning creature triggers something else, that other trigger won't be put onto the stack until after Vanish into Memory 's entire effect is finished resolving.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
I'm actually not entirely sure whether the discard effect is a separate delayed triggered ability from the return effect, but the outcome is the same regardless.
Once on the stack, an ability exists independently of its source. Removing the source or the object that triggered it will not counter the ability. You will still discard cards, and, if the card is missing for some reason, the game will use that creature's last known toughness to determine how many cards you discard.
July 20, 2014 7 p.m.