Two creatures (one with trample) blocked by one creature.
Asked by keyno 8 years ago
So my opponent controls a Brave the Sands and a Disowned Ancestor.I attack with Yasova Dragonclaw and Rattleclaw Mystic. The opponent blocks both of these creatures with his Disowned Ancestor thanks to the effect of Brave the Sands.There are no other cards or effects in this combat.
So when I allocate damage, the Yasova Dragonclaw has trample. How does this get allocated? Could I decide to allocate 2 damage from the Rattleclaw, plus two from the Dragonclaw to the creature, and the remaining 2 from the Dragonclaw to the player as per the rules of trample? Or would both creatures need trample for it to work this way? Or would it be that any attacking creature with trample would have to allocate the first 4 damage to the defending creature, and the rest to the player?
Please help! Thanks,
Hi Busse, thanks for answering, but I'm not really satisfied with that answer. I know that you declare the attacks of all of your creatures at the same time, and i'm also aware that combat damage is all allocated at the same time (except in cases of first strike, which wouldn't even raise this question).
November 15, 2015 1:17 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #3
Note: a creature doesn't attack "first", it is merely put first in line of the damage assignment. All creatures are declared to attack and deal combat damage at the same time. The only time a creature would deal combat damage "first"( or before the others), is if that creature had First Strike.
To answer your question:
The controller of each attacking/blocking creature determines how their creatures will assign and deal combat damage. You may have Rattleclaw Mystic be first in line, with Yasova Dragonclaw next. You can have Mystic assign 2 damage to Disowned Ancestor, then have Yasova Dragonclaw assign 2 damage to Disowned Ancestor (thus assigning lethal), and the remaining 2 damage trample through. All damage is dealt at the same time, and the 2 trample damage will be assigned to the defending player or a Planeswalker that player controls.
November 15, 2015 1:38 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #4
However, if you have Yasova Dragonclaw first in line, followed by Rattleclaw Mystic, all 4 trample damage will be marked on Disowned Ancestor, and your Rattleclaw Mystic will not deal any damage to the defending player as per the rules of being blocked because it does not have trample.
509.1h An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as blockers for it becomes a blocked creature; one with no creatures declared as blockers for it becomes an unblocked creature. This remains unchanged until the creature is removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first. A creature remains blocked even if all the creatures blocking it are removed from combat. (Some effects can change whether a creature is blocked or unblocked.)
November 15, 2015 1:45 p.m.
I did not know that I had to explain you everything. The basics are assumed.
Of course combat Damage is dealt at The same moment but The order has to be set at some point.
November 15, 2015 2:15 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #7
For many players, the basics are: attack, block, damage, done. The nuances of each step are not always known to players, and it's not their fault. Remember, Busse, not everyone is as knowledgeable in the rules as others.
November 15, 2015 2:29 p.m.
RicketyEng says... #8
Raging_Squiggle, you are not actually correct.
There is not actually an order in which the combined combat damage from the two attacking creatures is assigned. I would direct you to rules 509.2, 509.3, 510.1c (particularly the final example), and 702.19a and b.
My point is this: There is only an order when a creature (attacking or blocking) will be assigning damage to more than one creature. That order is determined during the Declare Blockers Step. For the two attacking creatures to kill the blocker, they will need to assign a total amount of damage to it which is lethal. While the damage is being assigned during the Combat Damage Step the attacking player can assign 2 damage from the Rattleclaw Mystic and 2 from Yasova Dragonclaw. Since the blocker has been assigned lethal damage, trample allows Yasova's remaining 2 points to be assigned to the defending player.
Rules for reference:509.2. Second, for each attacking creature thats become blocked, the active player announces that creatures damage assignment order, which consists of the creatures blocking it in an order of that players choice. (During the combat damage step, an attacking creature cant assign combat damage to a creature thats blocking it unless each creature ahead of that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.) This turn-based action doesnt use the stack.
509.3. Third, for each blocking creature, the defending player announces that creatures damage assignment order, which consists of the creatures its blocking in an order of that players choice. (During the combat damage step, a blocking creature cant assign combat damage to a creature its blocking unless each creature ahead of that blocked creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.) This turn-based action doesnt use the stack.
510.1c A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it assigns no combat damage. If exactly one creature is blocking it, it assigns all its combat damage to that creature. If two or more creatures are blocking it, it assigns its combat damage to those creatures according to the damage assignment order announced for it. This may allow the blocked creature to divide its combat damage. However, it cant assign combat damage to a creature thats blocking it unless, when combat damage assignments are complete, each creature that precedes that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures thats being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage thats actually dealt. An amount of damage thats greater than a creatures lethal damage may be assigned to it.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). Vastwood Gorger can assign 3 damage to the Guardian and 2 damage to the Elves, 4 damage to the Guardian and 1 damage to the Elves, or 5 damage to the Guardian.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). During the declare blockers step, the defending player casts Giant Growth targeting Pride Guardian, which gives it +3/+3 until end of turn. Vastwood Gorger must assign its 5 damage to the Guardian.
Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Vastwood Gorger (a 5/6 creature) is Pride Guardian (a 0/3 creature) then Llanowar Elves (a 1/1 creature). During the declare blockers step, the defending player casts Mending Hands targeting Pride Guardian, which prevents the next 4 damage that would be dealt to it. Vastwood Gorger can assign 3 damage to the Guardian and 2 damage to the Elves, 4 damage to the Guardian and 1 damage to the Elves, or 5 damage to the Guardian.Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Enormous Baloth (a 7/7 creature) is Trained Armodon (a 3/3 creature) that already has 2 damage marked on it, then Foriysian Brigade (a 2/4 creature that can block an additional creature), then Silverback Ape (a 5/5 creature). The damage assignment order of an attacking Durkwood Boars (a 4/4 creature) is the same Foriysian Brigade, then Goblin Piker (a 2/1 creature). Among other possibilities, the active player may have the Baloth assign 1 damage to the Armodon, 1 damage to the Brigade, and 5 damage to the Ape, and have the Boars assign 3 damage to the Brigade and 1 damage to the Piker.
702.19. Trample
702.19a Trample is a static ability that modifies the rules for assigning an attacking creatures combat damage. The ability has no effect when a creature with trample is blocking or is dealing noncombat damage. (See rule 510, Combat Damage Step.)
702.19b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures thats being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage thats actually dealt. The attacking creatures controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case cant assign any damage to the player or planeswalker its attacking.
Example: A 2/2 creature that can block an additional creature blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no abilities and a 3/3 with trample. The active player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creatures controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blockers protection ability. The attacking creatures controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.
Busse says... #1
You decide the order in which creatures are blocked, so if you make the Rattleclaw Mystic attack first, then the Yasova Dragonclaw, thus assigning 2+4 damage points.
The 2 trampling points left from the Yasova Dragonclaw will overflow and they can be assigned to the defending player (or planeswalker).
November 15, 2015 12:37 p.m. Edited.