Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH and flash enablers

Asked by Serokin 1 year ago

I run the Commander Omnath, Locus of Mana. My question concerns his death, at what step am I aloud to put him in the Command Zone after be assigned lethal damage? Am I able to respond after he goes to the Command Zone before the end of that phase or step? This is all due to his ability to store mana and cards that can allow him to be flashed out such as Winding Canyons, and Yeva, Nature's Herald.

Kogarashi says... #1

Omnath himself isn't "storing" your mana, he just has an ability that prevents green mana from emptying from your mana pool when steps and phases end, so when he leaves the battlefield for whatever reason, you have until the end of the current step or phase to spend your mana before your mana pool empties as normal. You will still get priority at least once after he leaves the battlefield before the current step or phase ends, so you would be able to use your Winding Canyons or Yeva, Nature's Herald to recast him at instant-speed before your mana pool empties (and if he dies on your main phase, you could recast him as normal before the phase ends), assuming you have enough mana for the "commander tax."

July 28, 2018 1:16 p.m.

Serokin says... #2

I know this is pretty specific but is their a CR

July 28, 2018 6:40 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #3

It is more a combination of Omnath's text, the rules for when mana empties from your pool (106.4), the rules for when steps and phases end (116.4), and the rules for flash (702.8). So no there is no one single rule that directly answers your question. As with most cases the answer depends on intelligent application of multiple rules and/or card text.

July 28, 2018 7:39 p.m.

Kogarashi says... #4

Yeah, that's one of the "fun" things about the rules. Sometimes it's not one specific simple rule to reference.

For the part about the mana sticking around (until the end of step or phase) when Omnath leaves the battlefield, you can find an official ruling on it at the Gatherer that clarifies the mana is still available for that limited time.

July 28, 2018 7:56 p.m.

Serokin says... #5

Ive read over the rules you listed and continue to be a bit confused so I'm going to attempt to be a little more specific about what my particular playgroup argues about during this interaction. Let's just say I own a Vedalken Orrery and Omnath is dealt lethal during combat phase. Correct me if or where I'm wrong please. During the Clean up step I use the replacement effect of putting Omnath into the Command zone. At the end of the Clean up step I get priority(I'm uncertain how this is why we argue about it) in a step where players don't usually get priority. I then recast Omnath paying Commander tax and all leftover mana will remain in my mana pool. Thanks for your time.

July 28, 2018 9:17 p.m.

Kogarashi says... Accepted answer #6

So let's say Omnath is dealt lethal because you attacked with him and someone blocked with lethal damage. This damage would be dealt during the Combat Damage Step of the Combat Phase.

When state-based actions are checked (which doesn't wait for the Cleanup Step, which is part of the Ending Phase), still in the Combat Damage Step, Omnath will be sent to the graveyard. You can choose to send him to the command zone at that point (again, this doesn't wait for the Cleanup Step) as a replacement effect. Omnath doesn't even enter the graveyard, he just goes to the command zone.

At this point, you have until the end of the Combat Damage Step to spend any green mana left in your mana pool from Omnath's ability, as your mana pool will empty when the game moves to the End of Combat Step. Players will also receive priority at this point, which will allow you to re-cast Omnath from your command zone as Vedalken Orrery gives him flash.

Nothing waits until the Cleanup Step in your scenario.

July 28, 2018 9:53 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #7

Putting a commander into the command zone is a replacement effect that can be used anytime a commander would be put into the graveyard, exile, hand, or library. It does not happen on the clean up step, it happens immediately instead of going to those zones.

What happens is:

The combat damage step begins and combat damage is assigned dealt. (510.1, 510.2)

A player would receive priority and so state based actions are checked. (510.3, 704.3)

Omnath has leathal damage marked and so is destroyed as a state based action. (704.5g)

You decide to replace.going to the graveyard with going to the command zone. (903.9)

At some time before the combat damage step ends you will receive priority since the step can not end until all players have passed (116.4)

July 28, 2018 10:13 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #8

Ninjaed because checking rules and typing on my tablet takes forever lol.

July 28, 2018 10:16 p.m.

Please login to comment