modular + hardened scales + savage summoning, works separately or not
Asked by sighonide 6 years ago
As the question states, if Hardened Scales is in play and I play a creature with modular 1 using savage summoning, will i get a creature with 3 +1/+1 tokens or 4 +1/+1 tokens?
i.e. does Hardened Scales affect modular and Savage Summoning separately, or is the +1/+1 ETB effect of Savage Summoning combined with the modular ability?
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
It will enter with 3 +1/+1 counters. This has to do with how replacement effects are applied to events.
"Enters the battlefield with (some number and type of) counters" is a type of replacement effect. In this example we see it in the Modular ability (example: Arcbound Worker) and the effect of Savage Summoning. We can also see by the use of the word "instead" that Hardened Scales' ability is also a replacement effect.
Right before an event starts to happen, we need to check whether any replacement effects could be applied to it. The Arcbound Worker is about to enter the battlefield with counters, so that means Savage Summoning will apply to the event (because the creature is entering the battlefield) and Hardened Scales will also apply to the event (because counters are being put onto the creature). Since you control the affected object, you decide which replacement effect to apply first. Any others will be applied later as long as they're still relevant to the modified event.
- If you apply Hardened Scales first, then the total counters are 1 + 1 = 2. Savage Summoning can still be applied to this event (creature entering the battlefield), so the total counters are now 2 + 1 = 3
- Likewise, if you apply Savage Summoning first, then the total counters are 1 + 1 = 2. Hardened Scales can still be applied to this event (counters being put), so the total counters are now 2 + 1 = 3
July 22, 2017 9:52 a.m.
The problem is Hardened Scales isn't a replacement effect that applies to the entering the battlefield event, it's a replacement effect that applies to both the modular event and the Savage Summoning event, both of which are happening at the same time.
July 22, 2017 11:07 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
They aren't treated as separate events. Entering the battlefield with counters is the "put counters on something" event that the replacement effect gets applied to. Hardened Scales can only add one counter as something enters the battlefield.
121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it's on the battlefield and also to an object that's given counters as it enters the battlefield.
July 22, 2017 11:27 a.m.
Well this is why I asked the question haha. It is good that we have a reference to the rules, now if we could get a third to confirm this is the case, i'll feel confident that the answer is 3 counters.
July 23, 2017 12:02 a.m.
Rhad is right. I don't personally know the answer, I just know him to always be rihht.
Neotrup says... #1
They are two separate effects being applied at the same time, so Hardened Scales effects both of them. It will enter with a total of 4 +1/+1 counters if it has Modular 1.
July 22, 2017 3:23 a.m.