Is "everybody wins" the same as a draw?
Asked by Tales19 4 years ago
As listed in the new silver-border card Princess Twilight Sparkle , the effect states that 'everypony' (which I presume can be safely interpreted as 'everybody'), wins. This however, seems to conflict with the notion that only one player can 'win' the game.
According to rule 104.4a, if everybody loses simultaneously, the game is a draw. However, in this case, the opposite scenario is true.
One of the few rule interactions that I could see being applied is a combination of rules 104.3h, 104.3f, and 104.4a. If the effect is individually but simultaneously applied to each player, then all players would simultaneously both win and lose. Thus, rule 104.3f would dictate that all players lose. This would then ultimately conclude in a draw.
However, rule 104.3h only applies to multiplayer games which use the limited range of influence option. Since not all multiplayer EDH games use that option, it may not apply.
Further more, the language of "a player" seems to suggest that in order for this rule to take effect, the previous assumption of simultaneously and yet individually applying the 'win' effect to all players is necessary.
Is it possible that the correct interpretation of this effect is to take the effect literally and to have each player record the result of the match as a win for each player? There doesn't seem to be much clarification in the current rules for such a scenario.
Gidgetimer says... #2
Ok, well since the question is only pertaining to tournament magic and there is no guidance in the comprehensive rules or tournament rules my statement of "ask the TO or head judge" is still the correct answer. After rereading the tournament rules to see if there was guidance in there, I do see that my earlier fix is not allowed. So I am changing my "if I was head judge" to "record it as a win for everyone. If this causes multiple people to be at the requisite wins I would then record the match as a draw."
November 3, 2019 5:49 p.m.
Funkydiscogod, this question is even answered in the Gatherer entry for Lab maniac:
"If two or more players control a Laboratory Maniac and each player is instructed to draw a number of cards, first the player whose turn it is draws that many cards. If this causes that player to win the game instead, the game is immediately over. If the game isn’t over yet, repeat this process for each other player in turn order."
This is because of the rules for drawing a card:
121.2c If an effect instructs more than one player to draw cards, the active player performs all of their draws first, then each other player in turn order does the same.
November 4, 2019 8:09 a.m.
Funkydiscogod, that's for losing due to decking. The situation with multiple Laboratory Maniac s is that the losing draw is replaced with a victory, which would happen during the draw rather than waiting for a player to receive priority. Hence why the Gatherer rulings on Laboratory Maniac specify that the cards are drawn in APNAP order which would determine who wins.
November 4, 2019 4:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Hey I couldn't find anywhere that it said draws are ordered. Good to know. I knew it was a replacement effect and didn't wait for SBA but was under the impression that everyone drew at the same time.
November 4, 2019 5:11 p.m.
Here you go, Gidgetimer:
- 121.2c If an effect instructs more than one player to draw cards, the active player performs all of their draws first, then each other player in turn order does the same.
November 4, 2019 7:56 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Yeah all I could find was:
101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.
Now that I know 121.2c exists I'm sure I will be able to find it next time.
November 4, 2019 8:02 p.m.
AvitarDiggs says... #8
You're not playing with the card's true power.
The text of Princess Twilight Sparkle states that "Everypony wins". Therefore, in order for your opponents to claim victory, they must admit to being a pony and/or brony.
Your opponents are faced with a now unwinnable situation: either declare before the world their unnatural kinship with a race of fictional equestrian pre-teens and be outed as a potential furry, or refuse to partake in the win, losing the match but clinging onto their humanity.
This Magic: the Gathering as Richard Garfield truly intended.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
There are not provisions for it in the comprehensive rules because the card is silver bordered and silver border cards are allowed to do things that would not normally happen. If you are in a tournament situation then the tournament organizer or head judge is going to be the final authority on how you need to record a game that ends with Princess Twilight Sparkle 's ability. If I were head judge I would say to record it as a win for everyone and then to make it first to 3 wins (normal is actually first to 2, not best of three) if this puts multiple people at 2 wins.
November 3, 2019 3:37 p.m.