Abzan Beastmaster with Instant Removal
Asked by KingSorin 9 years ago
Does Abzan Beastmaster's ability trigger even if i haven't got the requirements to draw a card yet? In other words, if my opponent controls a Grizzly Bears (example creature) and i Lightning Strike it at upkeep, is there any way I can do this to draw a card?
hyperlocke says... #2
No. At the beginning of the upkeep, the game will check if you have the creature with the highest toughness (or tied). If you do, the ability goes on the stack. If not, it doesn't. As the trigger event is the beginning of the upkeep, you can't do anything before it.
603.4. A triggered ability may read When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect]. When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isnt true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the intervening if clause rule. (The word if has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a card; this rule only applies to an if that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
January 15, 2015 7:36 a.m.
lanimilbuS says... #3
So, probably a silly question, but, is there no difference between "At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you control the creature with the greatest toughness or tied for the greatest toughness." and "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control the creature with the greatest toughness or tied for the greatest toughness, draw a card." when it comes to when it checks?
January 15, 2015 7:42 a.m.
hyperlocke says... #4
OK, quick rundown.
"At the beginning of your upkeep, draw... ,if..."
- Trigger event happens
- No intervening if -> ability goes on the stack
- Now it's time to resolve. The ability checks its condition
- True -> You draw / Not true -> You don't draw (the ability has no effect)
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if... , draw..."
- Trigger event happens
- Intervening If! -> Condition is checked
- True -> it goes on the stack / Not true -> It doesn't trigger, it doesn't go on the stack
- (Only if it triggered) Now it's time to resolve. Condition is checked again.
- True -> You draw / Not true -> You don't draw (the ability has no effect)
January 15, 2015 7:52 a.m.
lanimilbuS says... #5
Yes, and Abzan Beastmaster is "At the beginning of your upkeep, draw..., if..." so it should work if you kill in response to the trigger, right?
January 15, 2015 8:08 a.m.
hyperlocke says... #6
Oh... Oops... So yeah, turns out I'm an idiot who can't read cards right.
Yes, if you kill Grizzly Bears in response to the trigger, you draw. This ability has nothing to do with the "Intervening If Clause" rule.
Sorry for the confusion.
January 15, 2015 8:23 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #7
The trick here is that because you can't actually do anything until the beginning of your upkeep, the ability won't trigger at all. Abzan Beastmaster will check to see if you have the creature with the greatest toughness, and decide whether to trigger or not. In this case you do not, so it won't trigger at all.
TL;DR This triggered ability checks twice, on trigger and on resolution.
January 15, 2015 11:47 a.m.
hyperlocke says... Accepted answer #8
@MindAblaze!: I thought so, too. But this isn't an intervening if. Intervening ifs are worded "When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect]". Abzan Beastmaster's ability is worded "At [trigger event], [effect with if]".
At the beginning of your upkeep, this ability will trigger. On resolution, it checks whether you have the creature with greatest toughness or not.
January 15, 2015 12:44 p.m.
Thanks guys. It seems I can do this. And I assume it works the same way with instant speed bolstering. Neat trick to know for the prerelease. (Well I'm going jeskai... so more for draft)
January 15, 2015 7:54 p.m.
Once the release notes for the set came out, this was confirmed:
- The ability checks the creatures on the battlefield as it resolves to determine if you will draw a card.
- You'll draw a maximum of one card, even if you control multiple creatures tied for the greatest toughness.
So, yeah, official card rules backup the result of this discussion.
lanimilbuS says... #1
From the way it is worded, it seems as though it checks on resolution, meaning that, if you Strike in response to the trigger, you ought be able to draw a card off of Beastmaster.
January 15, 2015 7:32 a.m.