please delete
TappedOut forum
Posted on Aug. 20, 2015, 12:13 a.m. by theorganizationmoogle
whatever, shouldn't have bothered saying anything.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #5
You're absolutely right. Sexual assault in any form, context, or analogy is entirely unacceptable. I especially appreciate the fact that you called out TheBoraxKid's deck Vampiric Rapehouse which as of writing has 157 +1s.
It's disgusting that people would attempt to turn the most abhorrent violation of basic human rights into something edgy and positive. A selling point.
Know that no matter what amount of shit you take for attempting to call people on this unacceptable behavior, there are many of us in the community who stand with you 100%
August 20, 2015 12:28 a.m.
I had a friend commit suicide after a rape. It's a horrible thing, but while I love this site, people here seem to forget how devastating it can be to someone's life and the people around them. While I'm not going to link anywhere, all I can say is that this community, needs to understand that we're better than this.
Also, don't even try BoraxKid. He's quite stubborn and not exactly civil about it. Calls everyone who asks him, even politely, to change his deck name a "whiner."
August 20, 2015 12:31 a.m. Edited.
VampireArmy says... #7
Yay more social justice. Just what this place needs.
Edit: citing Huffington post as a source makes it veeeerry hard to even begin to take this thread seriously.
August 20, 2015 12:35 a.m. Edited.
WovenNebula says... #8
Thank you for this informative post. In my personal opinion the context is key whether it be rape, murder, drug abuse in different forms, harassment etc... In some aspects people can become desensitized by any word being thrown about, but that can come from their social environment and/ or cultural differences. Although I feel strongly about murder, rape, and harassment, I feel strongest about harassment since it seems, with the internet and other things, respect is not where it should be with one another. That includes all forms including sexual harassment which can lead to a form of rape since less people these days have the common decency of respect towards others in a social environment, then again I'm older and grew up in a tight knit community where it was common place to respect each other. It's not all for one, we are in this together.
August 20, 2015 12:43 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #9
VampireArmy, can you explain what you mean by social justice and why you seem to hold so much disdain for it?
August 20, 2015 12:54 a.m.
miracleHat says... #10
You are actually quite lucky that I read this before renaming one of the decks that I have on here. :\
I am curious, however, what are your opinions on the Zach Jesse (I think that is who it was...) ban (@theorganizationmoogle)?
August 20, 2015 12:56 a.m.
I do agree that this is something that needs some addressing as a site if we want it to continue to grow and be a welcoming community.
August 20, 2015 12:59 a.m.
notamardybum says... #12
Not sure if this is the place to post this kind of stuff. I didn't read all of what you posted. Quite frankly it was a bit much, and a little bit more than what I'd like to know about you. I'm sorry for what you may have gone through.
Also,
August 20, 2015 1 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #13
The crux of the issue isn't that something is in bad taste, most people would agree that it is, but that people should be able to do something in bad taste because freedom of speech. (Which Yeago has the sole choice on how he wants to enforce it on his site)
I err on the side of letting people do what they want. We're adults, we'll accept the consequences of our actions. And if those actions are social shaming, then whatever, but trying to police the language people use is an infantile affair.
August 20, 2015 1:01 a.m.
notamardybum - Remember that there are non-American users of this website, so that argument isn't valid here.
TurboFagoot - There are definitely people here who are not adults, and so that also somewhat falls through.
I'm all for letting people do what they want, but as soon as someone is hurt by those actions they lose the ability to do that. But I have no ability to enforce such a thing, and I doubt the mods and admin team want to police deck names.
August 20, 2015 1:05 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #18
You sure 360 no-scoped this out of the park I guess.
August 20, 2015 1:11 a.m.
notamardybum says... #19
I wouldn't consider posting a meme an argument...
August 20, 2015 1:12 a.m.
theorganizationmoogle says... #21
miracleHat i'm not familiar with that case, can you offer more detail?
notamardybum that was less negative than i expected based on the picture, i'm posting here because i've been ignored in other avenues. also just for the record the main body is excerpts from articles not my personal experience.
TurboFagoot its not about the language, its about the fact that it perpetuates rape culture. if people didn't get raped as much or if people were actually more aware of the seriousness of the problem it wouldn't be such a big deal. i think the problem is that most people don't don't see anything wrong with it but thats just my opinion, also i'm not trying to shame anyone, while TheBoraxKid was rather rude to me when i asked to have the name of the article changed i'd really just as soon see it changed and forget about them
August 20, 2015 1:13 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #22
Look man i dunno what to tell you. I don't enjoy hypersensitive people who project thier own sensitivity into the world and demand it shape to thier specific mind set
August 20, 2015 1:14 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #23
Lol this censorship argument again?
Seriously, we've had this discussion before and it's always come back to "rape is bad and we shouldn't mention it" and the counterpoint "you're asking people to censor themselves and that's kinda unlawful."
Look, both parties have points but at the end of the day you are asking people to censor themselves and that's not ok either, seeing as you are forcing your beliefs on someone else.
As we know, forcing your opinions on people is a lot like rape.
Sooooooo, yeah. Social Justice warriors have fun with my post.
Also, I feel like yeaGO and Epochalyptik should see this since they were involved in the last discussion about this. Sorry guys.
August 20, 2015 1:15 a.m. Edited.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #24
"As we know, forcing your opinions on people is a lot like rape"
No, it isn't. Requesting that people adhere to common courtesy is nothing like coercion and violence for the purpose of forcible sex.
August 20, 2015 1:21 a.m.
I'm trying to come up with a coherent post, but I keep not liking what I'm trying to say. So I'll just say this.
Remember that everything you do reflects on you. Especially on the internet. It doesn't matter how your persona differs from your real life persona, what you do matters. I take the role of "I don't put on the internet what I wouldn't show to my mother." If I had a deckname that used rape, I know that my mom wouldn't appreciate it. It's a similar philosophy to "Don't do anything you wouldn't want your parents to read in the newspaper."
August 20, 2015 1:21 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #27
I should also state that this is a U.S. owned site so U.S. Laws do apply here. That includes freedom of speech which is the point I think notamardybum was making.
August 20, 2015 1:22 a.m.
hippienproud says... #28
Freedom of speech means that the government can't censor you.
Also, if you're argument for saying something people don't like is "well, it's not illegal for me to say these things," then maybe you should re-evaluate what you're saying. Because that is a weak defense.
August 20, 2015 1:32 a.m.
While I'm sorry the use of the word has such violent consequences for you, and I think its use is almost exclusively in poor taste, Tappedout as a site can't start regulating language. Not to slippery-slope-fallacy here, but banning one word only leads to more. "Rape" has synonyms. People have all sorts of ways to offend you. Soon we'd have to ban TurboFagoot just for his name. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it isn't feasible to try and censor here.
That said, for the most part folks on here are polite and respectful. Some care more about freedom of speech than how they use it, but that's their place to be foolish.
August 20, 2015 1:33 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #30
I agree that this is in bad taste to do, but as far as freedom of speech goes, people have that right, and I feel the need to point out that naming a deck and using the word rape does not perpetuate rape culture. No one is using the word to advocate rape. Saying it promotes such a culture is just not true. If anything, it just shows immaturity.
However, it is entirely in horrible taste and does cross a certain line for a lot of people, for sure.
August 20, 2015 1:34 a.m.
SpartanCEL says... #32
I think it's in the same realm as swearing. It's frowned upon by some, but you can't force someone on the internet to stop without some form of censorship.
Is it possible to not be triggered? To acknowledge the word and not be triggered? I honestly don't know anything about it I'm just throwing the idea out there. You've probably had therapy and stuff so maybe I'm just talking nonsense. It is 1:40am here. Night peps
August 20, 2015 1:40 a.m.
hippienproud has a point. The 1st amendment stops the Government from censoring you, not private institutions. This is, effectively, a private website that yeaGO lets us use. If he decides "Nope, you can't say X" and bans people for it, we can't do shit.
August 20, 2015 1:41 a.m.
hippienproud says... #34
I would argue that using the word "rape" in a deck title furthers the normalization of the word, because then it could be seen by other people as justification to put the word in their own deck titles. Hell, subliminal messaging is a thing, and while I'm not saying that putting that word in a title is subliminal messaging, it certainly makes it more normalized.
August 20, 2015 1:41 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
I've been involved in this EXACT discussion when another user took issue with his deck name, that person will not be named.
Again, the argument was "calling it rape is perpetuating rape culture" and the counterpoint was "this is the internet, freedom of speech reigns supreme here. If you want us to censor 'rape' then what next? Beatdown? Because it evokes the beating of another person?"
Look I'm all for social justice, where it applies. It doesn't apply here. This is a clear cut case of freedom of speech.
August 20, 2015 1:43 a.m.
Sorry you were triggered.
That being said, I think a simplier post more focused on discussion of the issue would have been better received by the community.
August 20, 2015 1:44 a.m.
hippienproud says... #37
TurboFagoot can you yell fire in a crowded theater without expecting consequences? And it's not about "feelings;" rape has been proven to cause PTSD more often than war does. Would you post or say things in a large public forum that, when seen by a vet, could cause a flashback? I'm not saying that you can't, but at a certain point being an adult and realizing that shit you say can affect people mentally should take precedence.
August 20, 2015 1:46 a.m.
***Rape is rape, period. The act itself makes it enough of a dirty word. In the battle to end sexual assault, we need to recognize our own complacence with rape culture, and work diligently to change it. Language is a small step, but a profound one.Be an ally to rape survivors.Expand your vocabulary.***I very distinctly disagree with this.
I will be the "bad guy" of this thread
Firstly it has been stated by this websites creator that he does NOT want himself or his moderators having to police the site so that everyone can live with Rainbows and Butterflies. It required a SEVERE outrage from the community and an incessant amount of shitposting from the SINGLE person who has ever been banned form this site before he/she had a temp ban and then a perma-ban with well over 20 (no exaggeration) warnings from moderators about what they were doing.
Secondly I disagree wholeheartedly about people using the word Rape outside of the literal origin of the word as encouraging Rape Culture. The more you taboo something the HARDER IT BECOMES TO TALK ABOUT, something that has been time and time again throughout history been proven. I know this is a popular part of people describing what Rape Culture is however I think its a bunch of baloney
Also in a morbid sense it IS an accurate definition of what someone is trying to portray. The term Rape used outside of the sexual act is used to describe...well, rape in the sexual act. Take the deck you brazenly decided to use as your crucifix, "Vampiric Rapehouse"; This decks sole design is a deck of Tribal Vampires (Vampiric) built around cruel control and destruction of other creatures in play. The goal of this deck is to figuratively create an environment that corresponds to (rape) of the opponent. its not meant to be pretty or fun...the point was dominance.
The. Point. Was. Dominance.
Thirdly I am adopted. I floated around in the foster care system for several years before my adoption. I've experienced sexual assault. I DO UNDERSTAND the pain and I DO EMPATHIZE, however I get very flustered when I see other victims lashing out at people who IMO are not part of the problem. This deck, is not part of the problem. These tweens on CoD yelling sentences including the word rape, are not the problem.
The Problem? The people who feel that sexual dominance over another human being, where the recipient is either unwilling or unable to give consent is an arousing ideology and feel justified upon acting upon it. THAT is the problem. that sense or justification to do such a horrid thing to another person did not stem from Call of Duty teenagers. It did not stem from a game with a deck that creates a figurative environment of dominance and was named after that environment. its from the people who think in a way where they feel that the literal act of Raping another human is arousing. idk about you but nothing from MTG or COD or the douchey Bro saying the word Rape or referencing rape has ever made me aroused.
Closing point.
I get that hearing people use that word is a trigger for you; that you have a cross you were given to carry that you didn't want and shouldn't have. That for you when you hear the word what you can think about at that moment is only bad memories. However this is a conditioned stimulus. Conditioned Stimuli are quite literally how humans learn to adapt and survive, and any word or act can have a negative reaction tied to it through this brain function. The person who gives a word power is the person who reacts strongly to it.
I think your argument for this word could be that it is insensitive to use out of context, and the argument stops there.
you once had your power taken from you in a horrible way. don't let the stupid word describing what happened to you do the EXACT SAME THING to you.
--from someone who gets it
August 20, 2015 1:47 a.m. Edited.
Cobthecobbler says... #39
Another problem with OPs last comment I have:
"if people didn't get raped as much or if people were actually more aware of the seriousness of the problem it wouldn't be such a big deal."
There is a lot wrong with this sentence. If rape didn't happen as often? What does that mean? If slightly less people are being forcefully attacked into having consensual sex the problem goes away? What is this logic? The problem would still exist, and would still be a big deal to people who have been in this situation. And, literally everyone on the planet is aware that rape exists, happens daily, and generally view it as a bad thing. The rapists are the exception, of course. Bad logic is bad.
EDIT: I think this comment bothers me for the sole reason that it almost makes everything you fought for here moot.
August 20, 2015 1:50 a.m. Edited.
hippienproud says... #40
Ohthenoises and gay marriage will lead to bestiality, too? The slippery slope argument is ridiculous, stop hiding behind it.
August 20, 2015 1:51 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #41
Ok hippienproud just out of curiousity, are you a veteran?
Also, I'm not hiding behind shit, I'm just regurgitating what was said last time this discussion was aired.
August 20, 2015 1:54 a.m. Edited.
I said my two cents, But now I am subbing just to watch the shit show that is going to happen
August 20, 2015 2 a.m.
hippienproud says... #43
I'm not, just well read.
And that doesn't make what you said valid. "I'm just regurgitating what was said last time" is a poor excuse for a poorer argument.
August 20, 2015 2:05 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #44
hippienproud: Ohthenoises was just pointing out that the last time this thread was brought up, the definitive answer to this "problem" the last time it came up was that the site will not be policed. Nothing is going to change that by bringing up the argument again; its going to end the same way.
August 20, 2015 2:09 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #45
Ok, as a vet, do NOT talk about PTSD like you know a damn thing.
I have PTSD. It's mild but it's war induced. I can't eat red jello anymore because red jello looks like what a person does when struck by a 240mm rocket.
I'm not saying that you can't talk about PTSD but don't attempt to use it from a vet's perspective without actually have been through "the shit".
Also, I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying what was said last time this discussion was aired, thought I said that?
August 20, 2015 2:10 a.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #46
I think a bunch of you missed part of the point (VampireArmy, notamardybum, TurboFagoot, Ohthenoises).
I read all of theorganizationmoogle's post, and nowhere was it asked that anyone censor themselves or that the admins censor anything. It seemed to me that the author was making a sincere request of other members of the community to make the site more welcoming, and that's it. There was no mention of forcing anyone to anything, they were just asking nicely - and justifying that request with a thoughtful argument and some personal history. Trying to persuade someone to do something of their own free will is not censorship.
We can mostly agree that censorship is generally a bad solution to an issue like this. But making a plea to other members of a community to be more aware, or more respectful is far from censorship. In fact, it's a perfecty respectful, measured, and decent approach. I genuinely hope those in question at least read and think about what theorganizationmoogle wrote.
For the lazy, here's the Huffpost link. And the other link. And just for good measure, here's a good post specifically about Women in MTG, and the use of the term rape in relation to MTG: link.
August 20, 2015 2:12 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #47
No, I didn't miss the point, but this discussion will end the same reguardless so that was the point I was making.
August 20, 2015 2:16 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #48
formayor i could care less about the point. In fact everything i want to say has already been said. Mine and ApocryphalSaints life are very similar it seems
Edit: copy pasta'ed the wrong name
August 20, 2015 2:17 a.m. Edited.
Ohthenoises says... #49
For good measure, if you posted this gif: 
It would cause me to have a flashback. But do I complain? No, because this is the internet and stuff like efukt.com exists. Don't even get me STARTED on 4chan.
August 20, 2015 2:23 a.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #50
Ohthenoises - Look man, I'm really not trying to start some shit, but I do think the difference between someone trying to influence a community and someone trying to censor something was missed by a few people.
"...at the end of the day you are asking people to censor themselves and that's not ok either, seeing as you are forcing your beliefs on someone else."
I don't think that's a fair characterization of what theorganizationmoogle is trying to do, as far as I can tell from what was written.
EmblemMan says... #2
I just want to say that I appreciate that you took the time to write this and it did make me think of my choice of words. I dont commonly type the word rape but I do say it and Ill think about that more in my daily conversations. Sorry if anyone offended you on here i dont think thatll change since its the internet but if it does good on you. Have a good night.
August 20, 2015 12:24 a.m.