Sorok Gold Voting
Community Set
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15 February 2011
2229 views
15 February 2011
2229 views
Greetings! We had a lot of great submissions and we thank you all for your submissions. Below you will find the ones that made it through the grinder. Time to vote on the Gold rares of this set. Please place 3 votes, one each for an Blue/Red, Red/White, and Blue/Red/White. Please read through all of the cards and suggestions for changes and all of the guidelines for voting. Thank you for all of the great participation people, keep it up.
Sorok Gold Rare Finalists
*** #Blue/Red Rares | |
##Frozen Fire | |
####Design Team Suggestions Fairly certain we need to change the second ability to something like: Look at the top X card and put one in your hand, where X is equal to the number of gemstones you control. Also a concern about how many gemstones would be in the set, and how many gemstones you could conceivably play in a deck. |
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##Goblin Manipulator | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Should Sorok have artifact hate, and should Goblin Manipulator tap lands? |
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##River Raider | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Needs a cost increase to 1BR or 2BR, and perhaps a converted mana cost limit to the noncreature artifact card that is revealed - either a set limit (3-4) or perhaps equal to the damage it does (to encourage pumping it) | |
##Silent Rigmaster | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns As written this doesn't confer control of the equiptment to the Rigmaster's controller, intentional? Also we would like to remove the first ability, concerns about it being a bit OP. |
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*** #Red/White Rares | |
##Darvit, Master Chucker | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Perhaps make it legendary? Change the damage target to either player or creature, not both (to remove the wordyness of the seocnd ability). |
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##Dwarven Griffin Master | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Need to remove the Hatchling subtype, Perhaps make the tokens 2/2 and since they are mono white, remove haste. Remove flying from The Griffin Master. Great flavor to this card! |
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##Griffin Firelancer | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Are Griffins supposed to be knights? A suggestion was made to make this 2/2 (like the rest of the griffins). Some community comments that this is undercosted, but remember, traditionally 2 colors in cost is counted as a cost increase as well. |
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*** #Blue/Red/White Multicolored Rare | |
##Aqubod, the Source | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns Passive abilities isn't a rules term so we had to change it to static abilities. We feel that hey would still need to be listed out, similar to Cairn Wanderer. something like : "As long as a creature you control has flying, equipped creature has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, trample, shroud, and vigilance." if you vote for this card, please include ideas about the list of abilities. |
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##Mighty Sledge of Sorok | |
####Design Team Suggestions/Concerns There should be a limited number of things that give doublestriike in a set (so if this one gets the nod, others will probably not make the cut). Suggestion to drop vigilance, and make a decision on whether or not gemstone stuff is indestructible or not. |
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##Mountain of Jewels | |
####Design Team Concerns/Suggestions Token needs to be a construct, lifelink may be OP. Is this going to be useful considering need to sac 5 gemstones? |
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##Zylectium Dexterity Bands | |
####Design Team Concerns/Suggestions If this is supposed to interact with resolve, penalty needs to be higher (-4/-4) double strike is obnoxiously powerful on something like Blightsteel Colossus. one suggestion was to change this to: Equipped creature is a 1/1 and gets unblockable, doublestrike, and vigilance, which neatly sidesteps the problem while interacting well with Resolve. |
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##Essence of Sorok | |
####Design Team Concerns/Suggestions Type needs to be changed (not elemental). Perhaps add Tap to all the bilities, or increase the cost of the abilities. We thought would be a great commander card. |
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##Out of the Rubble | |
####Design Team Concerns/Suggestions Perhaps overcosted. There was a concern that the token didn't have a drake-type flavor to it. |
Inspiration and creative parameters or Sorok
Sorok is a land of vast mountains, lush valleys, rushing rivers and large lakes.
Creatures of Sorok
Dwarves
Dwarves are the major power in Sorok. Their wizards and artisans use the gems and materials gathered by the miners to make powerful equipment. Dwarves are known to be stubborn, loyal, a bit ponderous, and resolute. Dwarves live in the mountains they are born from, having vast underground cities. Dwarven nomads search the tunnels for rareties and treasures, while Dwarven scouts keep an eye the other races.
Goblins
Not your average goblins by any means, the Goblins of Sorok are actually somewhat intelligent and restrained, if a bit out there. They have wizards and artisans that use pilfered materials to make equipment that is well, a bit risky. Their settlements are normally in the valleys, with tall (if shaky) homes. Goblin advisers are selected from the most intelligent of the tribes and mostly try and rein in the more outlandish ideas of the others.
Merfolk
The Merfolk of Sorok inhabit the deep clear lakes of Sorok using the rivers as fast transportation (at least downhill). While not as numerous as the Dwarves or Goblins, the Merfolk are well versed in the control magics and hold their own in the rare conflicts.
Noggles
Noggles are the red headed stepchild of Sorok. Living near the Goblins, they tend to be the pranksters, rabble-rousers, and thieves of the societies.
Birds
Birds are abundant in Sorok, both large and small. Everything from eggs to rocs in the high reaches.
Drakes
Drakes make their homes in the mountains and caves. Some drakes have been known to be raised from the egg by adventurous goblin riders.
Griffins
Griffins are one the major predators in Sorok, and have mostly driven the drakes off the high reaches. While not sentient, the Griffins are highly intelligent and serious in manner.
Themes/Keywords/Mechanics.
The major themes and keywords of Sorok are : Bounce, Colored Non-Creature Artifacts and Equipment, Counter-spelling, Double Strike, Flying, Haste, Legends, Resolve, and Vigilance.
Clamp has been renamed Resolve (Spells, counters, or abilities cannot change this creature's power and toughness from their printed values)
Voting
Here's what we're looking for:
- Each person should cast three votes (1 each) for your favorite Blue/Red, Red/White, and Blue/Red/White Multicolor.
- Each person should critique the card(s) for which they have voted. Agree or disagree with the Head Team's suggestions and include any other ideas you have to improve the card. You may also make comments about other cards aside from the card that you voted for. The Head team will take into considerations all comments posted about all cards.
The deadline for voting is Sat, February 19th, at 8:00 p.m.
Goblin Manipulator
Griffin Firelancer
Mighty Sledge of Sorok
February 15, 2011 1:39 p.m.
U/B: River Raider. For balancing it I originally wanted the effect to add it to your hand so as to more flavor fully simulate the idea of the pirate stealing the first shiny thing he sees from the people he attacks but you can't do that. Maybe have it exile the artifact then add a "you can cast artifacts exiled this way as though they were in your hand" clause though its wordy enough as it is, that might make it more so.
R/W: Dwarven Griffin Master. Personally I would keep the hacthling sup type and keep them at 1/1. Your already getting 4 p/t + abilities for 4 manna, more than that if you blink it. Something white is easily able to do. I would instead make the tokens r/w and keep the haste but that's just me.
R/W/U: Zylectium Dexterity Bands. Up the draw back to -2/-2 at least and I think double strike and unblockable together on one card is too powerful. I'd either change unblockable to shroud or double strike to first strike.
February 15, 2011 7:11 p.m.
Battlecry1986 says... #5
Frozen Fire This card looks fun but needs some work.
Suggest -
Drop legendary, I know this means it needs to powered down but didn't it already and I think we should try and keep the gemstones nonlegendary this way we encourage players to run a high count of them.
I think the 1st ability is solid but up the cost too (1Rtap)
As far as the 2nd ability goes I like what the design team suggested but to remove legendary I would have the second ability also return it to its owners hand.
February 15, 2011 7:47 p.m.
Battlecry1986 says... #6
Dwarven Griffin Master Love the style
My guess is that The Griffin Master rides a griffin thus it's ability to fly.
His power toughness should be higher than the tokens he puts into the battlefield.
Sugested solution would be to change the masters power/tough to 3/2 and make the tokens 2/1.
February 15, 2011 8:02 p.m.
Battlecry1986 says... #7
Final Vote
Aqubod, the Source
I think Cairn Wanderer is a clumsy card and "all static abilities" is ease to understand and explain.
Also "the source" should coppy everything even complex abilities (Example: Myrsmith )
February 15, 2011 8:19 p.m.
Resurrector_of_the_Soulslayer says... #8
ok if I'm going to vote for Darvit then it needs some changes as I'm just now realizing.
First it needs Legendary, that was the intent from the start somehow I forgot it.
Second it needs a P/T change to 6/4 or 4/6? Other wise it feels like "wow I'm paying 6 mana and not getting a 6/6 titan? Then I'm not playing it"
Lastly it should have haste and vigilance. This addition would justify the WWRR in the mana cost.
With those changes it gets my vote.
Second vote is for River Raider with changes,
I think the design team is 100% correct on this card. CMC should be at least 1UR
Second I love the design teams idea on making it reveal cards from the top of the library until an artifact with cmc equal to the combat damage dealt by River raider. Should be under the players control and remove first ability.
And lastly I'm not going to vote on a RWU because I don't care for any of them, not that they are bad its just they are not to my liking and congrats to whoever does get picked. I will say I don't like Aqubod the source the most, because its ability is too confusing to keep track of.
And it seems like most equipment being submitted says equipped creature gets doublestrike resolve haste flying vigilance. Where is our creativity?
Not saying anyones submissions are bad, I'm not trying to be mean its they aren't to my liking.
February 15, 2011 10:01 p.m.
RU: River Raider. I support the design team's idea of maxing the CMC to the damage.
RW: Griffin Firelancer. I'm not a fan of any of the red/white rares, but I guess this is okay. I think it's a knight on a griffin.
RWU: Mighty Sledge of Sorok. I have to vote for my own. I was thinking that as a RWU legendary gemstone, this would be epic and eternal (indestructible).
February 15, 2011 10:23 p.m.
BrownDog5117 says... #10
Silent Rigmaster
Dwarven Griffin Master
Out of the Rubble
February 16, 2011 1:20 a.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #11
I will give my vote to "Out of the Rubble Mountain of Jewels". Combine them both I say!!! Imagine it (changes in RED:
Out of the Rubble 2RRWU
Sacrifice any number of artifacts you control.
Put an X/X red, white, and blue gemstone construct token with haste, vigilance, and shroud onto the battlefield where X is the total converted mana cost of all artifacts sacrificed in this way.
This way, it fixes concerns of both cards
February 16, 2011 1:31 a.m.
Tough calls. I wanted two from each category.
1) River Raider
2) Dwarven Griffin Master
3) Zylectium Dexterity Bands
Suggestions.....
RIVER RAIDER:
Make it RU1, and set artifact cost limit to 4. RU2 is too much because opponent may not have anything to steal.
GRIFFIN MASTER:
Replace flying with resolve. As is, there is nothing about this card that makes it any less strong or playable in the R/B/W shard. So resolve helps a little with that.
Also, I really think storywise it makes sense for Sorok dwarves to have resolve.
Make tokens 1/1 flying, monowhite, no haste, probably resolve on them too, to further help it be a Sorok card. Hatchling subtype seems fine.
ZYLECTIUM:
Going for a real BOMB 3-color gemstone equipment for Sorok. Is it bomby enough w/o double strike? I'm inclined to say just ramp up the power penalty. -4/-1. Or raise equip cost. If it goes onto a creature with resolve, it looks like they are tending to be small dudes anyway. If you can get that thing equipped onto Blightsteel Colossus , then you have spent 18 total mana, with 3 specific colors. So that SHOULD be obnoxiously powerful. I think it works with cost/penalty increases, keeping double strike.
If you feel strongly about it, then I suggest replace double strike with first strike. I would really like unblockable to stay. This way, I think -2/-1 should be fine. Please don't set the creature at 1/1. That would kill the interaction with Resolve.
February 16, 2011 4:21 a.m.
Other cards suggestions...
Frozen Fire(my close 2nd pick):
Does not need legendary. Otherwise works as is. Yes, I think we can get the # of gemstones. Not a huge amount(unless we get token maker), but I think we could certainly have 3 or 4 on the board for stuff like this.
Aqubod:
I actually think -4/-4 it too severe, as I could well imagine getting, on average, 2 abilities. It gives no abilities itself. Even if you get flying, vigilance, and first strike, we're talking R/U/W, plus 2 to equip. I say -1/-2.
Mighty Sledge:
I think 6 cmc is too much. I guess indestructible is considered the huge one. Still too high, I think. Also I don't understand why resolve is on there. I don't think that an equipment giving a creature resolve is helpful(and it's questionable, storywise). The equipments would be the source of the penalties, which is what makes it good if the critter has resolve.
I say drop resolve, and make it 4cmc, same equip cost. I like the idea of an indestructible legendary gemstone. I think it could make sense that there is one type of gem(or a mix of more than one) that cannot be destroyed.
Mountain of Jewels:
Works as is. Yes, I do think we can get that number of gems on the board(barely), and that this one would probably wipe ALL of your gems(including itself) to get that creature. Just right.
Essence of Sorok:
I don't see why there can't be a special elemental in the shard. I say make it 4/4. It would be very fun to have a cycle with this and other 3-color rare creatures that give an ability of each color(like Rot Liege from Ulgris). One per shard. These creatures could be outside the shards' normal types, too.
Some of those, I would love to see survive for later consideration if they are not picked. This a strong round, I think.
February 16, 2011 5:10 a.m.
Edit post 12:
OOPS. Yes, making it 1/1 would indeed work with Resolve. Got so used to seeing -x/-x stuff. Yeah, that's a good idea. We haven't yet seen it done that way for a card that's meant to interact with resolve. I like it.
February 16, 2011 6:04 a.m.
Battlecry1986 says... #15
@vic regarding Aqubod
I disagree with you regarding its ability granting limits. If fitted into a typical Sorok deck it will grant everything from flying and double strike to indestructible unblockable and shroud. Not to mention whatever badass complex static abilities we come up with.
February 16, 2011 7:34 a.m.
Certainly those abilities will all be in Sorok. What I meant was: How many creatures am I going to have on the board at one time(when my opponent is working to remove them)? And what will be the sum of their abilities?
February 16, 2011 7:54 p.m.
Believe me, in a best-case scenario, I see Aqubod as a real bomb. But other times, realistically, I see having 2 or 3 dudes, and between them they have a total of flying and resolve. And btw, I hope I don't ever have one guy with defender on the board with Aqubod! : ) God, could you imagine the disappointment?
I'm not saying for sure you would get a low total of abilities. But I think it's a very realistic possibility to consider. That's why I thought -4/-4 might be too severe. Perhaps the previous idea of setting the creature to 1/1 is a good way to go with this card, too.
February 16, 2011 8:12 p.m.
River Raider-however it should have islandwalk instead of haste and its main ability should look at the top 10 cards then have attacking player should have the ability to cast that card like it was from his hand at the next main phase if combat damage was dealt.the rest of the cards go to the bottom of the library in order of owner's choosing.
Dwarven Griffin Master-take away his vigilance,haste,flying make him 1/2.change his second ability to bringing in 2 1/1 guys with flying.Make a third ability where he gives all griffins first strike and haste.
Out of the Rubble- Reduce the cost to 2RUB and change the drake's abilities to Flying,haste and shroud.
February 17, 2011 3:21 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #20
Red/Blue: River Raider
I like the feel of this guy, but he definitely does need to be limited somehow. I kinda like the idea of making it based on power to incentivize pumping him, but a set number would be more balance-able. Your call.
Red/White: Dwarven Griffin Master
Drop the flying, make them 2/2 white Griffins.
However, here's a thought: What if you gave him "T: Target Griffin gains Haste or Vigilance until end of turn"? This would accomplish several goals - he'd feel more like a griffin master (giving them buffs) and it would still let the player get a hasty griffin that turn should they want to.
Red/White/Blue: Essence of Sorok
Make all the abilities into 'target creature' abilities (i.e. "R: Target creature gains haste until end of turn.") Balances better because it scales with the size of the army they have, and allows for interesting interactions - give other players buffs in multiplayer, or give an opponent's creature flying for some shenanigans.
Another thought:
I had a really hard time deciding between Dwarven Griffin Master and Griffin Firelancer.
Ultimately, I decided on Griffin Master because it feels like the Firelancer could be something that could be an Uncommon card. Not as it currently exists, but perhaps if it dealt a fixed amount of damage to a creature (2 maybe?) and a couple other tweaks. I really think it could be a cool uncommon for the set, giving the feel of a member of a dwarven air force. Oh, yeah, and it should be a Dwarf knight.
February 19, 2011 1:50 a.m.
I think vic's changes to Dwarven Griffin Master are quite feasible. I had imagined the Master to be riding on his own griffin, thus having flying. But he can just as well be in charge of them on the ground, no problem there. Giving him resolve then makes perfect sense as he is a dwarf.
Giving the hatchlings resolve is a bit odd, since not only are they not (hardened) dwarves, but they are young, and thus vulnerable. Perhaps flying, vigilance?
February 20, 2011 1:02 p.m.
Joshwarudd says... #22
Happy to see two of my cards make it into voting...
R/U: Frozen Fire
I know its not real cool to vote for your own card but with some work it could be very strong. Upon more thought it doesn't need legendary but with the other gemstones that have been submitted and the possibility of common or uncommon gemstones in the set its not broken and not underpowered
R/W: Darvit
He just seems like he could be fun to play. I could see him as a legendary and the second either needs to be changed to target player/creature or needs a little rewording.
R/U/W: Mountain of Jewels
With the possibility of common gemstones and maybe even a gemstone token generator to work with this and Frozen Fire this could be a little OP for its cost. If there are a lot of gemstones in the set I would recommend the cost being changed to 8 or 10 stones... depends on the number of gemstones in the set
February 21, 2011 7:34 p.m.
winners posted in the new article. Community card B/W/R shard brainstorming session is not in order. Join the debate: http://bit.ly/ePKo26
zerotimestatechamp says... #1
Silent Rigmaster-make it a 1/3. Make the equipment stay on it until death.
Griffin Firelancer
Out of the Rubble- reduce cost to WWUURR
February 15, 2011 12:37 p.m.