Who dies first: me or Massacre Wurm?
Asked by Djmallow 10 years ago
So the other night I was playing a fool around game with my buddy. He had two MW on the field and two demons that when killed, they each put a -5/-5 on all creatures, and another black creature that he could pay x mana to place -x/-x counters on a creature.
On the field I had a grim guardian and four other creatures, one with 2/6. All black creatures were boosted because of bad moon. Every creature I had was toughness 5 or less, with the exception if one which was the 2/6. He had two life and I had 13.
I summon another grim guardian. He activates the effect to deal damage to a demon he has, gives everything the negative counters, I play two volt charges on his wurms. So the resolve would be volt, volt, effect of negative counters, grim guardian. Right?
Would I lose the 4 life per creature if i did that, resulting in him winning or a draw or me losing? Just curious.
Gidgetimer says... #2
It is either 8 or 10 triggers, he said that opponent had "a grim guardian and four other creatures" for a total of 5 creatures. If he cast a second Grim Guardian depending on when the responses were made the Havoc Demon trigger would either kill 4 or 5 creatures on opponent's side, everything except the 2/6.
The real question is why didn't your buddy just Volt Charge to your face instead of the Massacre Wurm s.
July 15, 2014 12:44 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #3
Oh, got that backwards who had what. Just change the pronouns. and since you are the one who cast the Volt Charge why not just dome him for the win?
July 15, 2014 12:46 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #4
To give a complete answer, then:
You lose unless you Volt Charge your opponent instead of wasting your burn on his creatures. As was described above, if your opponent gets eight or more triggers from Massacre Wurm , you'll die before your abilities resolve.
Epochalyptik says... #1
First, link all cards in your question. There's a formatting guide at the bottom of the page.
Massacre Wurm
Grim Guardian
Bad Moon
Volt Charge
Havoc Demon
It's really unclear what you're asking. It sounds like your opponent is dealing damage to something, but you described the other creature as giving -1/-1 counters, which is not damage. Also, the -5/-5 that Havoc Demon gives to all other creatures is a static debuff and does not use counters, so it can't be proliferated.
Let's assume one Havoc Demon dies as a result of your opponent's response to Grim Guardian or its ability (it's not clear which is the case here).
Havoc Demon 's ability triggers and goes onto the stack. You respond with two Volt Charge s, each targeting a different Massacre Wurm .
Each Massacre Wurm is dealt 3 damage as a result of your Volt Charge s. Then, Havoc Demon 's ability resolves and gives all creatures -5/-5. All of your creatures (except the 2/6) and all of your opponent's creatures (except the second Havoc Demon , which is now 1/1) will die.
Each Massacre Wurm 's ability triggers three times if your opponent responded to Grim Guardian as a spell, or four times if your opponent responded to Grim Guardian 's ability (because the second Grim Guardian must be on the field to die at that point). That's a total of either six or eight Massacre Wurm triggers.
Six triggers: You and your opponent both end up at 1 life. All of the Massacre Wurm abilities will resolve before the second Grim Guardian resolves. You'll lose 12 life (out of 13), and your Grim Guardian will enter the battlefield. Its ability will trigger, and it will drop your opponent from 2 to 1 life.
Eight triggers: You die. All of the Massacre Wurm abilities will resolve before either Grim Guardian 's ability, and you will lose a total of 16 life.
July 14, 2014 9:38 p.m.