What happens to creature depended on +1/+1 counters when it is returned to hand?
Asked by Deltanoyr 7 years ago
I have a creature which existence depends on +1/+1 counters (such as Ghave, Guru of Spores or Primordial Hydra). Some effect (for example Unsummon) returns such creature to my hand.
Rule 121.2. says: Counters on an object are not retained if that object moves from one zone to another. The counters are not removed; they simply cease to exist. See rule 400.7.
My friend says that when counters cease to exist, my creature dies instead of returning to my hand, because it becomes 0/0.My opinion is that my creature normally returns to my hand and after that its counters cease to exist. We cant agree on when exactly +1/+1 counters cease to exist. Who is right?
Also, a creature doesn't die for having 0 or less toughness in the middle of a spell's resolution, that only happens when state based actions are checked after the spell finishes resolving. By that point, the card is safely in your hand.
September 6, 2017 10:31 p.m.
Thank you very much, guys! Your answers helped me a lot.
Blo says... Accepted answer #1
Seems like you found the relevant rule.
121.2. Counters on an object are not retained if that object moves from one zone to another. The counters are not removed; they simply cease to exist.
The creature will be, in this case Ghave, Guru of Spores bounced back to hand by a card like Unsummon. When Unsummon resolves, it would put the creature from the battlefield to it's owners hand. When the creature gets there, the game would check if everything is allowed and vanishes stuff that shouldn't be there, such as tokens or counters.
By the time that would happen, the creature has to have moved a zone (from battlefield to hand) and only then will it have no counters on it.
Simply put, unsummon doesn't remove the counters from the creature, they simply cease to exist when an object moves from one zone to another.
September 6, 2017 6:39 p.m.