What happens if you want to conduct an infinite loop an unknown number of times?
Asked by chosenone124 7 years ago
Suppose I have Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Mind Over Matter, and a 7 card hand. In my deck, I have a copy of Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.
In short, I can tap Azami and discard to draw a card, then untap it by discarding down to 7 again. I can reset my deck whenever I hit Kozilek, so it's infinite.
Theoretically, I could do this until I have the exact 7 cards that I want, and it's a controlled infinite loop.
However, according to rule 421.2
"If the loop contains one or more optional actions and one player controls them all, that playerchooses a number. The loop is treated as repeating that many times or until another playerintervenes, whichever comes first."
The nature of this combo makes it impossible to predict the exact number of iterations I need to get a perfect 7 card hand. Do I have to perform the combo manually until I get the 7 cards I want? Or can I just shuffle my hand into my deck and tutor 7 up?
Gidgetimer says... #2
You are going to have to do it one iteration at a time until you reach the result you want. You can not take the physical actions of untapping and tapping Azami as long as everyone understands the proposed loop. But to comply with the rules of the game just draw the cards and discard them immediately if they are not one of the you want or Kozilek. If they are one of the seven you want or Kozilek just discard a card from your hand that isn't one of the seven until you get your perfect seven.
March 17, 2017 7:36 p.m.
As long as you are drawing and discarding new cards you are changing game-state and all is cool. However, if you let the Kozilek trigger resolve and keep looting after that, you'll get slow play warninig. As long as you don't let that Kozilek trigger resolve you can give upperlimit for your required activations and that's the number of cards in your library.
March 17, 2017 10:43 p.m.
chosenone124 says... #4
What if I want to set up my graveyard such that only say 5 specific cards were in it and the rest are in my deck/hand? Technically, with the infinite combo I can do that, but that would take an insane number of iterations
March 18, 2017 2:17 a.m.
"3.3. Tournament Error Slow Play WarningDefinitionA player takes longer than is reasonably required to complete game actions. If a judge believes a player is intentionally playing slowly to take advantage of a time limit, the infraction is Unsporting Conduct Stalling.It is also slow play if a player continues to execute a loop without being able to provide an exact number of iterations and the expected resulting game state."
- IPG
March 18, 2017 2:27 a.m.
chosenone124 says... #6
That last sentence is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
chosenone124 says... #1
In short, I want to conduct the loop until I achieve a certain result, but I don't know the number of iterations it would take to achieve the result
March 17, 2017 5:47 p.m.