Vorel of the Hull Clade and Hardened Scales
Asked by zephramtripp 9 years ago
Does doubling a creature with X +1/+1 counters with Vorel of the Hull Clade while you have Hardened Scales in play give the creature 2X+1 counters or 3X counters? I'm just thinking from a mindset of how for loops work in programming.
nobu_the_bard says... Accepted answer #2
Vorel of the Hull Clade's ability will effectively place X counters, where X is the number of counters on the target, when he is activated.
If you have targeted a creature with a +1/+1 counter, and control Hardened Scales, he will place X+1 counters +1/+1 counters, where X is the number of +1/+1 counters the creature had.
If you also control something like Doubling Season when you target that creature, you know have two replacement effects modifying his ability. You can choose the order they apply in. Thus, you will most likely place X+X+2 (because you can apply Hardened Scales before Doubling Season). You could instead place X+X+1 if you had some reason to want to.
May 6, 2016 4:30 p.m.
zephramtripp says... #3
But the thing that confuses me is that unlike Doubling Season, which puts twice the counters, Vorel says "For each counter, put another counter," which makes me think we could apply Hardened Scales for each instance of putting another counter.
May 6, 2016 7:31 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Vorel of the Hull Clade puts all the counters on as a single game event. A replacement effect can only replace an event once. Common Bond with both targets the same puts the counters on as two different game events (separate effects denoted by separate lines of text), Incremental Growth puts the counters on as three game events (separate targets).
sonnet666 says... #1
When something doubles the number of counters on a permanent in magic, it's really just adding the appropriate number of counters.
Hardened Scales has a replacement effect that modifies that addition.
If you used Vorel on a creature that has 4 +1/+1 counters on it. Vorel's effect will go to add 4 counters to that creature when it resolves, and then Hardened Scales will replace that action with adding four plus one, five, counters instead.
May 6, 2016 3:53 p.m.