Unstable: What power and toughness do creature cards with augment have in zones other than the battlefield (+ interactions with Over My Dead Bodies)?
Asked by Yesterday 7 years ago
(I've got a number of rules interaction questions from Unstable and am about to post a few. If anybody knows a better place to ask questions specifically regarding cards from silver-border sets, please let me know and I'll go there instead in future.)
If I have an Over My Dead Bodies in play and a Monkey- in my graveyard, if I swing in with my Monkey-, how much damage would it potentially deal? Can cards like Aquamorph Entity block even though they have 0/0 power/toughness off the battlefield? Would creature cards in the battlefield with keyword abilities that impact combat, such as trample, still have those abilities in the graveyard (considering they would have them if they were truly attacking 'as though they were on the battlefield')?
Finally, a creature like Gang of Devils that deals damage when it dies, is the source of that damage from the card in the graveyard, meaning that it would exile anything it would successfully deal damage to as per Over My Dead Bodies' undeathtouch ruling?
Thanks!
Q1: Augment creatures in the graveyard cannot attack or block. I believe this also means an augment creature on the battlefield not augmenting anything can't attack or block either, but we don't have an official answer on this.
Q2: Aquamorph Entity has a replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield or is turned face up, not a characteristic defining ability. As it's power/toughness are not defined by the card, it is a 0/0 in all other zones. It can still attack or block.
Q3: No. Abilities that trigger off a permanent leaving the battlefield use the last known information about that permanent. Because Gang of Devils did not have undeathtouch while it was on the battlefield, the triggered ability acts as though it does not have it. If a creature in the graveyard does somehow deal damage to a creature on the battlefield (such as through Pit Fight) Undeathtouch does apply and will exile the creature on the battlefield.
December 13, 2017 10:54 a.m.
Boza, as per Q3, I wasn't talking about targeting a creature in the graveyard just FYI. Why are creatures that are alive unaffected by Undeathtouch? It doesn't specify the damage needs to be through combat.
Neotrup Q1, can I ask where you got the ruling on unattached Augment creatures not being able to attack or block?On Q3, that's what I was afraid of. :( How would one target a creature card in the graveyard with Pit Fight?
December 13, 2017 1:37 p.m.
For Undeathtouch:http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/168450614523/can-a-creature-in-a-graveyard-from-over-my-dead
For Augments in the graveyard:http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/168200828248/presumably-augment-creatures-in-my-graveyard-are
Though it does look like an augment on the battlefield could attack/block:http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/168398356728/what-happens-when-garbage-elemental-cascades-into
As for targeting a creature in your graveyard with Pit Fight, while a creature in a graveyard is attacking or blocking, you may target it as though it were on the the battlefield. If it would be destroyed, it is instead removed from combat. From the Unstable faqawaslfaqpaftidawabiajtbt:
So I can cast Giant Growth targeting an attacking graveyard creature?
Yes, you may target an attacking or blocking graveyard creature just as you could target a normal creature.
So I can cast Murder targeting my opponent's blocking graveyard creature?
Sure. If a graveyard creature is destroyed, it's removed from combat. It would go to the graveyard, but it's already in the graveyard. But you removed it from combat!
Can I target a graveyard creature that isn't attacking or blocking?
Not with anything that targets a creature on the battlefield. Remember you treat them as on the battlefield only while they're attacking or blocking.
December 14, 2017 12:46 a.m.
By creatures that are alive, I meant actually creatures that are unaffected by Over my dead bodies. Undeathtouch does nothing to them.
December 14, 2017 3:04 a.m.
Why would Undeathtouch not exile a creature that's on the battlefield if it was dealt damage by a creature card in the graveyard animated with Over My Dead Bodies?
December 14, 2017 5:30 a.m.
I thought that undeathtouch works only on creatures in graveyards. After reading this card for the 6th time today, turns out undeathtouch works for any creature. Silver borders are weird for sure.
Boza says... #1
Q1: Augment interaction is undefined as of right now, but my guess is 0/0 for the augment creature and it can attack, but cannot deal damage.
Q2: For sure for Aquamorph Entity, is 0/0 outside the battlefield. It has a characteristic defining ability.
Q3: No, because you cannot target creatures in graveyards with its ability. Additionally, creatures that are on the battlefield (and alive) are not affected by undeathtouch. The only time you could kill creatres in graveyards is when they are declared as attackers blockers and you kill your own Gang of Devils to generate the trigger.
December 13, 2017 6:31 a.m.