Sudden Spoiling and the Time Stamp
Asked by UmbrotheUmbreon 9 years ago
So I was in a game where my friend had used Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 's -2 to make an emblem. During the combat phase of the same turn I used Sudden Spoiling . I thought that because his emblem gave the buff that it would be removed through Sudden Spoiling , but he argues that it is similar to a +1/+1 counter and will give the buff after his creatures are modifed to 0/2.
I tried looking for the answer under the Comprehensive rules but with no luck. Can someone help me out by explaining the right scenario with the rules that back it up?
filledelanuit says... #2
I just read the time of your question. The time stamp of the effects don't matter because they apply in different sublayers and already have a defined order to apply the in.
October 1, 2014 5:46 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #3
Ah, alright. So I was wrong. Thanks for the help
October 1, 2014 8:28 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #4
Slight modification, sublayer 7-1 in that list is actually sublayer 7-2, and vice versa. CDAs are applied in the layer system before PT setting effects. In fact, CDAs apply first in every layer, regardless of dependency or timestamp. In this case, that doesn't actually matter though, as there are no CDAs in play.
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
October 2, 2014 12:37 a.m.
filledelanuit says... #5
@CrazyLittleGuy Thanks for correcting me on that.
filledelanuit says... Accepted answer #1
Your friend is correct. The key to understanding this interaction is understanding how layer 7 works.
Layer 7 defines the order in which power and toughness modifying effects are applied. They are applied in this order:
Power and toughness setting effects. Sudden Spoiling is a good example of this. These effects are often accompanied by the creature losing its abilities for a period of time.
P/T Characteristic defining abilities. CDAs are abilities that set the power and toughness of a creature. The best example of a CDA is Tarmogoyf
Static boosts. This include boosts like Giant Growth and effects like Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 's emblem.
Counters. This includes +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters and all of their varients.
P/T switching effects. Effects that switch power and toughness are applied in this layer after all other effects.
So to answer your question the creatures would be 1/2s with no abilities.
If you want to look at the comp rules you can cntrl find "interaction of continuous effects"
October 1, 2014 5:43 p.m.