Saga interaction with Proliferate
Asked by chosenone124 5 years ago
If I cast Eldest Reborn and, in response to the first ability, activate Contagion Engine on it, what happens?
Madcookie is correct. The first chapter of the saga will trigger when it enters, and Contagion Engine 's double proliferate will put two more counters on it, triggering the second and third chapters.
It's important to note that you will only sacrifice the saga if the following criteria are true: - The third chapter's ability has left the stack - The saga still has 3+ counters on it when state-based actions are checked
(The number of chapters may be different on future sagas, but for all Dominaria ones at the moment, the number of chapters is 3.)
If you remove counters from the saga while the third chapter's ability is still on the stack, the saga will stick around and you will be able to get its effects again on later turns.
February 24, 2019 12:13 p.m.
Point of clarification: You sacrifice it as a state-based action once all it's abilities have left the stack, not specifically the third ability. With proliferation you can stack the abilities in odd ways, and as described it would not be sacrificed until it's first ability (which will be the last to resolve) leaves the stack. It's only sacrificed if it still has 3 or more counters at that point.
March 3, 2019 9:03 a.m.
Fair enough. The wording I used was how it was explained on a judge blog, I believe.
The actual wording from the comprehensive rules says:
714.4. If the number of lore counters on a Saga permanent is greater than or equal to its final chapter number, and it isn't the source of a chapter ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack, that Saga's controller sacrifices it. This state-based action doesn't use the stack.
So if it's the source of any chapter ability still on the stack, you don't sacrifice it yet.
So the criteria would actually be:
- 3+ counters on it (or whatever the final chapter number is)
- All of its triggers have left the stack
March 3, 2019 1:21 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
chosenone124: Correct answers to this question have been up for a while. I chose one to mark as the "Accepted Answer" so that the thread can move out of the Unanswered queue. Please remember to take care of this yourself in the future.
Madcookie says... Accepted answer #1
I believe the interaction is this. First ability of The Eldest Reborn triggers as it ETB. You activate Contagion Engine , giving it a second and third lore counter respectively. This puts its second and third abilities on the stack and you choose in which order to place them. Assuming you didn't remove and counters in response to Contagion Engine as soon as any of those abilities on the stack resolves, The Eldest Reborn is sacrificed as a state-based action, since it had 3 or more lore counters.This does not affect the other two abilities on the stack and they resolve as normal with the ETB (the first ability), resolving last.
February 24, 2019 5:52 a.m.