Ordeal of Heliod effect time?
Asked by MonsterFinder221 11 years ago
Ok, so, i was playing with Ordeal of Heliod
and i wondered:
Does Ordeal of Heliod 's effect happen BEFORE or AFTER the creature attacks?
Ordeal of Heliod triggers upon the creature being declared as an attacker, and resolves before blockers are declared.
October 12, 2013 2:30 a.m.
Short answer: After you declare it as an attacker, but before your opponent declares blockers and well before damage happens.
Long answer: You declare the start of your attack phase. You declare the enchanted creature as an attacker, Ordeal's first ability triggers and goes onto the stack. If it is not responded to, it resolves and puts a +1/+1 counter on it. If that is the third or more counter, you sacrifice the ordeal. The trigger from you sacrificing, goes onto the stack. If it isn't responded to, it resolves, and you gain 10 life. Assuming nobody does anything else up to this point, you will typically then enter the Declare Blockers step.
October 12, 2013 2:32 a.m.
@ Devonin
Another quick clarification:
Ordeal of Heliod will cause it'self to be sacrificed after it's conditions are met, but what if the creature bearing it is killed before those conditions are met?
Seems to me that the "When this card is sacrificed..." part of the text is separated to mean that if the creature bearing it is killed early then the ordeal's effect goes off as it is sacrificed due to having no bearer. Is that correct?
October 13, 2013 4:50 a.m.
If the creature dies, then the ordeal will fall off and go to the graveyard. It's not being sacrificed so it will not have any effect.
October 13, 2013 5:02 a.m.
Replayced is correct. The enchantment going to the graveyard because the creature it was enchanting died will not cause it to be sacrificed or have its effect.
What the separation of the clauses actually means is that the second trigger, the one which triggers from the sacrificing of the enchantment, doesn't care WHY you sacrificed it as long as it was actually sacrificed (The effect will use the actual word 'sacrifice') So if it has 3 or more counters on it, you will sacrifice it and get its effect. You could also sacrifice it while it had 0, 1 or 2 counters on it to say...Claws of Gix or because someone hit you with All Is Dust
The ordeals only care that the way they leave the battlefield includes the word 'sacrifice' in order to fire off.
October 13, 2013 8:52 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #7
This is an old thread, but I'm wondering if I could get help from it still. Does the creature need to attack in order to trigger the 2nd ability? Say I have a creature with heroic and 2 counters on it already. Attaching the Ordeal will give it the 3rd counter it needs to be sac'd. Must I wait until I attack with it (netting a 4th +1/+1 counter) to trigger the sac ability, or will it be sac'd after it resolves on the creature?
December 3, 2014 12:56 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX - yes, you have to attack to trigger the sacrifice ability. At which point you will sacrifice the ordeal and get the resulting ability.
Fun fact, if you have a way to sacrifice permanents in another way, that will also trigger the sacrifice ability.
December 3, 2014 1:07 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
@GeminiSpartanX: Ask a new question instead of replying to an old one.
December 3, 2014 1:13 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #10
Yes the creature still needs to attack for you to sac it and gain 10 health. And if it has "...3 or more +1/+1 counters on it.." it activates when you declare attackers. SO for example you have a heroic creature, lets say Centaur Battlemaster, with no counters on it yet and you play Ordeal of Heliod, triggering heroic and giving him 3 +1/+1 counter, you swing and gain another +1/+1 counter, totaling 4 counters, the qualifications have been met. Lets say you dont have 1 on that creature and it is a heroic, gains +1/+1 if targeted, and play a card like Feat of Resistance givng it 2 more +1/+1 counters. this you, again, cause it to resolve due to the total number of +1/+1 counters being 4 (heroic trigger + spell ability), but this would only be the case if you instant cast it while declaring attackers. Did that help?
December 3, 2014 1:15 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #11
@Epochalyptik- Sorry about that. I've used mtgsalvation before and they yell at you for starting a new thread that's too close to an existing thread. I didn't know exactly how it worked here.
@ Everyone else- Thanks for the help! So in my example, I'd get the 4th counter and sac for the effect once I declare attackers. This will also help me with my Bruna commander deck, since now I know the ordeals won't trigger unless they're already on Bruna, Light of Alabaster when she attacks. Thanks!
December 3, 2014 1:27 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
Our community isn't as strict about that stuff. We prefer if you check recent questions for duplicates, but we prefer more that users ask new questions instead of responding to ones they are over a week old.
The problem is that nobody checks old questions because they're marked as resolved and never reappear at the top of the Q&A feed. The only way we knew to respond was that we were still subscribed to the old thread from when we originally posted.
December 3, 2014 2:06 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #13
Maybe you could give them an article about how to use the q&a forums appropriately? Or link in an existing one?
Epochalyptik says... #1
Ordeal of Heliod 's first triggered ability triggers whenever the enchanted creature attacks. This means the ability is put onto the stack in the declare attackers step. The ability will resolve completely before the game can progress to the declare blockers and combat damage steps.
October 12, 2013 2:30 a.m.