Norn's Annex and Sword of War and Peace

Asked by Martymo 13 years ago

So if my creature has Sword of War and Peace activated, can I ignore the effect of card:Norn's Annex and attack without paying?

While I'm at it, can I also ignore Gideon Jura 's effect that forces me to attack him?

MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #1

I'm afraid not. Protection won't stop either of those effects.

The things protection does for you can be remembered using the acronym "DEBT":

--Damage - it can't be dealt damage by any source with the named quality.

--Enchanted/Equipped - it can't be enchanted by an aura or carry an equipment with the named quality.

--Blocked - it can't be blocked by a creature with the named quality.

--Targeted - it can't be targeted by any source with the named quality.

Neither card:Norn's Annex nor Gideon Jura target creatures with their effects (not the effects we're talking about, anyhow) so your creatures don't get to ignore them.

You can also think of it in terms of how the abilities are working: Neither ability is really doing anything directly to the creatures. All the abilities are doing is making something true about the game. As soon as an Annex hits the field, all of a sudden the game rules for that particular game state that you have to pay WP in order to attack that particular player; all of a sudden, the game rules state that all creatures this player controls attack Gideon if able. These abilities don't interact with creatures in any way that Protection could impact.

October 6, 2011 9:04 p.m.

spartanwolfej says... #2

I believe that if Gideon Jura targets you, and the opponent has a card:Norn's Annex on the field, you may choose to not pay norn's annex's cost, causing your creatures not to attack. Assuming that's what you're even asking.

October 6, 2011 9:32 p.m.

rckclimber777 says... #3

Actually I'm pretty sure that the creatures must still attack, it just causes Norn's annex to make you lose 2 life for each creature attacking. Other thoughts?

October 6, 2011 9:36 p.m.

MagnorCriol says... #4

That's not what he's asking, he's asking if his Prot-White creature can ignore either of those effects because they're from white sources.

However, no, card:Norn's Annex + Gideon Jura doesn't cause an opponent to lose 2 life per attacker. Jura's ability has a (very intentional) "if able" clause on it, and that's relevant to the Annex's "attacking tax" - if you don't pay the tax, your creatures can't attack. If they can't attack, Gideon's ability can't make them attack him.

October 6, 2011 9:46 p.m.

spartanwolfej says... #5

I assumed he didn't mean that, but his second question was vague, so I figured what the hey, I'll post it. He might have also not known about that certain condition either.

October 6, 2011 9:49 p.m.

melbicimni says... #6

Yeah, card:Norn's Annex + Gideon Jura cancel one another out, essentially.

October 6, 2011 9:55 p.m.

Arachnarchist says... #7

You are never forced to pay a cost to attack, regardless of whether you can pay the cost. Even any of the numerous "Juggernaut s" are not required to attack if you must pay a cost.

October 6, 2011 10:05 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

Protection follows the DEBT acronym:

Damage - All damage that would be dealt to a creature with protection from X by a source of quality X is prevented.

Enchant/Equip - A creature with protection from X cannot be enchanted or equipped by anything of quality X.

Blocking - A creature with protection from X cannot be blocked by a creature of quality X.

Targeting - A creature with protection from X cannot be targeted by a source of quality X.

Note that the creature has protection, not you.

A creature with protection from white is exempt from neither card:Norn's Annex nor Gideon Jura 's +2 effect. None of these abilities do anything to the creature that protection would prevent or otherwise disallow.

You will still have to pay the cost for Norn's Annex for a creature with protection from white to attack. A creature with protection from white will still have to attack Gideon Jura if able.

October 7, 2011 2:29 a.m.

cardcoin says... #9

@rckclimber777

If your opponent has card:Norn's Annex and a Gideon Jura on the field, and activates so you have to attack if able then when it comes to your next attack step, because of the wording on card:Norn's Annex, you may choose NOT to pay the phyrexian Mana, and thus you are NOT ABLE to attack at all. So that creates a negative effect.

Back to the rules question at hand. MagnorCriol is right.

October 7, 2011 6:21 a.m.

This discussion has been closed