My creature with trample Blocks your creature...do you lose life?
Asked by thejadejedi 12 years ago
Ok, say my opponent is attacking with a 1/1 Flying Spirit token and I block with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight . If I give her trample using Kessig Wolf Run . Will I deal 4 damage (doubled up to 8) to my opponent? Or does Trample only matter on an attacking creature?
I had this question arise tonight at FNM and no one really knew for sure. Thanks :)
No one knew this? Where do you play FNM and why is there no judge (or even rules adviser)? lol
Trample only occurs when you attack. There's no way for a blocking creature to deal combat damage to the attacking player, unless an effect specifically states it (though I don't think such a card exists).
May 26, 2012 3:38 a.m.
Meglonoth can deal damage while blocking, but I'm pretty sure it's the only one with trample in reverse
May 26, 2012 10:12 a.m.
Copied Oracle text from Ball Lightning:
Trample (If this creature would deal enough damage to its blockers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to defending player or planeswalker.)
Hope this helps.
May 26, 2012 10:15 a.m.
rckclimber777 says... #6
As BadumPsh has quoted here Trample means that if the creature would deal enough damage to its blockers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damge to defending player or planeswalker. Thus in order for trample to work you must be attacking.
Also as a note here for future reference if you attack with gisela and give her trample and say she gets blocked by a 2/2 flyer. The replacement effect happens after you've assigned damage. Since you must assign lethal damage before assigning trample damage you must assign 2 damage to the flyer and then the rest to the opponent. The 2 damage will double to 4 afterwards. You cannot assign 1 damage to the flyer and the rest to the opponent as you might think since the 1 damage will be replaced.
May 26, 2012 1:09 p.m.
I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, rckclimber777. By that logic, a Wurmcoil Engine with Trample would have to deal 6 damage to a blocker before trampling over, which simply isn't true.
May 26, 2012 1:15 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #8
Wurmcoil's deathtouch allows it to deal 1 damage and then trample if it has trample. lethal damage must be assigned to all creatures before any trample damage can be done. So in the case of deathtouch 1 damage is lethal damage.
Although I'm not sure how that follows from my statement at all. Perhaps I miscommunicated something there.
Lethal damage must be assigned to all creatures before damage is assigned to an opponent in the case of trample. The amount of damage assigned is based on the power of the creature not any replacement effects that may change the damage done. So in the case of Gisela with trample attacking and a 2/2 flyer blocking. Gisela is a 5/5 so she will deal 2 damage to the flyer and 3 damage to the opponent. Those damages will be replaced and doubled. So 4 damage is done to the flyer and 6 damage is done to the opponent.
May 26, 2012 1:21 p.m.
AradonTemplar says... #9
Rckclimber777's correct. Lethal damage takes deathtouch damage into account, but does not account for replacement effects like doubling and prevention. Therefore, you have to assign full damage before doubling before you can trample the rest over to the player. Then those totals are both doubled, resulting in overkill on the creature.
May 26, 2012 1:40 p.m.
Ok. It seemed to me like Gisela's ability and Deathtouch were both factored in when deciding what is "lethal". I just wasn't fully aware of how a replacement effect worked.
May 26, 2012 1:58 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #11
Here are some rules excerpts to back up what rckclimber777 is saying:
510.1c ...When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures thats being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage thats actually dealt...
702.2b Any nonzero amount of combat damage assigned to a creature by a source with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage, regardless of that creatures toughness. See rules 510.1cd.
May 26, 2012 9:08 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Works the same way as card:Inquisitor's Flail, that ruling has been around for quite a bit.
Gatherer on inquisitor's flail: "9/22/2011 If you divide the combat damage dealt by the equipped creature, perhaps because the creature has trample or is dealing combat damage to multiple creatures, you'll divide the original amount and then double the results. For example, if a 5/5 creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then doubled to 4 and 6 damage, respectively. You can't double the damage to 10 first and then assign 2 to the creature and 8 to the player."
May 26, 2012 11:19 p.m.
thejadejedi says... #16
Oh there was a judge, we were just curious if it would work or not and the judge was busy at another table. So we just asked each other and no one had the same answer. I just figured someone on here would know & since I've never been able to find a list of any online rulebook for MTG, I just asked here.
May 29, 2012 12:11 a.m.
From the link above:
"702.18a Trample is a static ability that modifies the rules for assigning an attacking creatures combat damage. The ability has no effect when a creature with trample is blocking or is dealing noncombat damage."
thesudosudo says... #1
I believe it is only when attacking.
May 26, 2012 3:22 a.m.