Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Creatures with Persist?
Asked by Dreno33 12 years ago
Would Melira, Sylvok Outcast as a general work well with creatures who has Persist, therefore bringing them back without giving them a -1/-1?
My answer was incorrect.
121.5. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being placed on a permanent, it means putting a counter on that permanent while its on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it.
So persist uses that second syntax: entering the battlefield with a counter on it, which counts as "placing" and Melira prevents "placing" so Melira does indeed allow creatures with persist to come back into play with no -1/-1 counter on them.
March 19, 2013 9:17 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #5
Yes, Devonin's corrected answer is, well, correct. Melira and your persist creatures are indeed BFFs.
March 19, 2013 9:23 p.m.
Yeah, my brain seems to have conflated "comes into play vs put into play" and the issue of entering the battlefield with counters already on versus coming into play first and then getting counters added. Not sure why that happened, but I caught it pretty much instantly, so there's that. :P
March 19, 2013 9:26 p.m.
sweet, but i just looked up green persist creatures, there are only 2 :'(
March 19, 2013 9:30 p.m.
So play the deck with Captain Sisay as your general. Use the green, white and green/white persist creatures (of which there are more, and great stuff like Kitchen Finks and just put Melira in the deck, and use Captain Sisay to tutor her up.
March 19, 2013 9:36 p.m.
thanks!! im going to do that man! ill link you deck when its built and needs some expert opinions :D
March 19, 2013 9:38 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #10
Don't beat yourself up about it; while in general the MtG rules are very precise with given verbs having only one meaning and an action having only one verb, counter manipulation stuff tends to use more muddy language, for some reason, making it not immediately obvious. "Placed" isn't used on a lot of cards that "placed" applies to.
Also, Dreno33, make sure you select an answer when someone finds you one here, so the thread doesn't lurk on the "unanswered" side of the river.
March 19, 2013 9:52 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #11
Haha, herp. Apparently you were in the process of doing so as I typed. Disregard my last statement. =)
March 19, 2013 9:53 p.m.
So that means I've played Fathom Mage - Master Biomancer combo wrong since I assumed that counters are not placed when creatures enter battlefield with them. Well, live and learn I guess. I'm just sad that I convinced my opponent in an FNM that his combo didn't work. Well, at least I lost those games.
March 20, 2013 4:36 a.m.
Absinthman says... #13
As far as I know, you can safely assume that counters are always placed on permanents, regardless of their source and method of arrival. Abovementioned methods all count as placing. I'll just add one that nobody mentioned yet. To "move" a counter is also a shortcut to saying "remove from" and "place somewhere else".
Devonin says... #1
Creatures with persist come into play with the -1/-1 counter already on them, so Melira won't do anything to them. She only stops them from being placed on creatures you control. Persist doesn't place them, they're just there.
March 19, 2013 9:10 p.m.