Loyalty Counters?
Asked by onthestack 13 years ago
Can a planeswalker gain life? How can opponents Lightning Bolt a planeswalker and actually do "damage" to it?
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
Planeswalkers can't gain life because they don't have life totals. They have loyalty counters.
Damage dealt to a planeswalker removes that many loyalty counters from it.
An opponent can't actually target a planeswalker with a Lightning Bolt. Instead, they target the player and redirect the damage to a planeswalker that player controls upon resolution of the spell/ability.
306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 614.9) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 616). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
306.8. Damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many loyalty counters being removed from it.
January 24, 2012 7:28 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
There isn't really a clear way to explain why this is what happens. The loyalty counters on a planeswalker are probably best analogized to its life total, or what it would be if it had one. This is misleading, however, since planeswalkers are not players.
January 24, 2012 7:30 p.m.
onthestack says... #4
It can't just be because they're considered Players. =/
January 24, 2012 7:30 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Planeswalkers are not considered players. This is a common misconception, since many people explain planeswalkers this way to newer players so they kind of understand how they work. A planeswalker can be attacked and its "vitality" reduced, but that's where the similarities end.
January 24, 2012 7:32 p.m.
-A planeswalker cannot gain life do to it is not a player as to you or your opponent are.
the Lightning Bolt actually does damage to the planeswalker's loyalty gauge. if in a scenerio such as below'
-If a spell or ability you control would deal damage to an opponent, you may have it deal that damage to a planeswalker that opponent controls instead. So while you can't target a planeswalker with a Shock, you can have a Shock that targets your opponent deal 2 damage to one of his or her planeswalkers instead of to the player.
January 24, 2012 7:35 p.m.
onthestack says... #8
Would it work the same way with Sword of Feast and Famine?
January 24, 2012 7:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
What do you mean?
If you're asking if the Sword's ability would trigger, then no. A planeswalker is not a player, therefore any abilities which trigger on combat damage to a player would not trigger for combat damage to a planeswalker.
January 24, 2012 7:43 p.m.
Dont forget to accept an answer so it gets removed faster.
Since I dont see it here I will give the explanation that I was given.
A planeswalker is an ally that you can call to your aid. A planeswalkers Loyalty points are like vitality as has been said, when you reduce their loyalty you are hurting them, this makes them not want to fight for you as much, when a planeswalkers loyalty is reduced to 0 they abandon you in the fight.
January 24, 2012 8:38 p.m.
DarasuumKote28 says... #12
I probably shouldn't ask a related question on a thread like this, but Epochalyptik's answer (#9) makes me think that cards such as Stromkirk Noble or vampires with Rakish Heir out DON'T get +1/+1 counters. Is this correct?
January 24, 2012 10:42 p.m.
i was told back when i thought there still was mana burn'..that we our selves are considered planeswalker's..can anyone clarify that for me cause this seems a most appropriate time to discuss this matter of mine haha'
January 24, 2012 11:06 p.m.
Players are considered planeswalkers only from a game flavour perspective. It has nothing to do with the rules.
January 24, 2012 11:11 p.m.
thats what im coming at is from a complete flavour perspective'...like for example we are all considered planeswalker of the multiverse'...(correct)?
January 24, 2012 11:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #17
In terms of lore and flavor, players are "planeswalkers." We are supposed to represent powerful mages who can call on magic from across the multiverse to fight one another.
However, in terms of game rules, players and planeswalkers are NOT the same.
January 24, 2012 11:15 p.m.
thats what got me first interested into magic the gathering'...that an the epic battles in the books'..thanks for clearin that up everyone'
January 24, 2012 11:19 p.m.
"I guess what I'm really asking is... why is that allowed? Doing damage to a planeswalker reduces it's loyalty counters.. really?"
A more reasonable way to look at how that happens is best done with a lil thinking. If you consider that Players are Planeswalkers that battle each other using the spells they know from their library then you get a sense of the battlefield. Some Planeswalkers (us) are advanced enough to be able to summon other minor Planeswalkers (Planeswalker cards, let's say Miniwalkers to avoid confusion) to aid us in our battle. These Miniwalkers are loyal to us because of some affiliation and because we were able to summon them. If we have the Miniwalker perform certain "spells" that they like, then their loyalty to us will increase (the +X effects). If we force the Miniwalkers to perform "spells" they know but don't really like using (The -X effects. This can be for many different reasons. Like how you may not like playing a specific color) then they lose some loyalty to us because we are making them go against their preferences. If we let the Miniwalkers get injured (for instance, someone casts a Lightning Bolt at us and then redirects it to the Miniwalker) then they lose loyalty towards us because we didn't protect them.
I figured I'd try to explain the reasoning of the mechanic to a more logical sense because the rulings were already covered. I hope it helped make things a little easier to understand and was an enjoyable read.
January 25, 2012 12:28 a.m.
i enjoyed it quite well an paints a vivid picture'..well done brotha'
January 25, 2012 12:34 a.m.
Basically what I was going for, i always imagined loyalty points as actual loyalty to US.
January 25, 2012 12:44 a.m.
I love how even the sarcastic remarks get explained...Also, i think a day will come when this game has so many rules and mechanics that it'll be virtually unplayable. Especially at this rate. That or everyone is gonna have to go through judges school just to understand how to play.
January 25, 2012 1:14 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #24
If you're interested in understanding every facet and nuance of the rules, then you should probably consider taking some time out with the Comprehensive Rulebook. However, it doesn't take all that much to understand how to do most of the things in the game.
A lot of the problems with misunderstandings come from an improper first explanation, which confuses unfamiliar players and leads them to make incorrect inferences about game mechanics and ultimately incorrect plays from a legal standpoint.
January 25, 2012 4:47 a.m.
Yeah, when I first started playing getting taught something wrong was hard to get over.
I really dont think that game is that hard at all. Its complicated, and its a lot to take in when you start But when you get the hang of it its simple.
The number one rule is to read the cards. Its a literal game and usually most o your answers are right in front of you:).
Honestly the game used to be a lot more complicated. They word the cards sooooo much simpler now. I still read old cards and im like WTF!? they didnt need to over explain it like that. Sure, they always add new mechanics. But every single mechanic in the game doesnt show up in every game you play. It's all situational and entirely dependent on the matchup and what decks everyone is playing.
onthestack says... #1
I guess what I'm really asking is... why is that allowed? Doing damage to a planeswalker reduces it's loyalty counters.. really?
January 24, 2012 7:27 p.m.