Karn Liberated
Asked by -Orvos- 9 years ago
Ok so crazy interaction that actually just happened in a game I played that I want to know if is actually possible/legal...
Teferi, Temporal Archmage's emblem, Karn Liberated and The Chain Veil are out and Karn Liberated has more than 17 loyalty counters on him. If I put Karn's -14 on the stack then in response activate The Chain Veil, then after the chain veil resolves activate Karn's -3 targeting himself would he come into play at the start of the restarted game?
Raging_Squiggle says... #2
I don't believe it will work that way.
Whenever a card changes zones, it becomes a new entity with no knowledge of its previous existence, including any cards exiled under it.
When Karn's ult goes to resolve, it tries to see what cards are exiled under Karn. But since Karn is no longer in play, it uses the last known information when he was on the battlefield. And that would be any cards exiled under him, minus himself, because it checks the information when he was still in play.
April 2, 2016 2 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #3
We are going to go on a bit of a journey here concerning common MTG lingo, the technicality of how linked abilities work, and Karn's first Gatherer ruling:
6/1/2011: Karn's first and third abilities are linked. Similarly, Karn's second and third abilities are linked. Only cards exiled by either of Karn's first two abilities will remain in exile when the game restarts.
Now it is pretty obvious that Karn has linked abilities to anyone who is aware that linked abilities are a thing. The Gatherer ruling is only being cited to remove all doubt that a casual observer may have that we are talking about linked abilities. Oftentimes when something has linked abilities that exile cards, such as Karn Liberated or Isochron Scepter, the cards are said to be be "Exiled under" that permanent. These words have no actual rules meaning and are not a characteristic of the permanent nor the exiled card. The cards are simply in the exile zone and are being tracked by the abilities of that permanent. The comprehensive rules on linked abilities say in part:
607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to the exiled cards or to cards exiled with [this object], these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
It is pretty explicit that the cards are simply in exile and that it tracks that the cards were put there by the ability to which it is linked on the same permanent. I believe that we can all agree that Karn Liberated was exiled by an ability on the same permanent as the ability that later resolved restarting the game. As such it would be put on the battlefield when the game restarts.
Gidgetimer says... #1
Should work. As long as karn had 18+ counters and was still on the field when his -3 resolved targeting him.
April 2, 2016 12:40 a.m.