Karador, ghost chieftain and bestow
Asked by Bobgalarneau 11 years ago
If i have Karador, Ghost Chieftain on the field and a bestow creature in the grave, let say Nighthowler , can i cast nighthowler from the graveyard for it's bestow cost and enchant a creature?
golffore297 says... #2
I could be wrong, but I don't believe you can because when you cast it for the Bestow cost, it is not a creature spell but an Enchantment Aura spell, so it wouldn't be a creature card being cast.
September 30, 2013 8:35 p.m.
The ability being on a creature doesn't really make a difference. After all, Madness is on creatures too and you couldn't cast it for its madness cost from the graveyard.
The issue is whether the fact that it is a creature in the graveyard, and thus a legal target for the ability of Karador, is countered by the fact that the rules text for Bestow says that if you cast it for its bestow cost, it is an enchantment aura and no longer a creature.
I think you may still be right, but simply because that alternate cost is on a creature is not, I think, what makes the difference.
September 30, 2013 8:35 p.m.
PhageTheUnbeatable says... #4
When you cast any creature with the "Bestow" mechanic, it goes on the stack as an aura enchantment, not a creature. Karador, Ghost Chieftain states that you may only cast CREATURE cards from your graveyard. Casting a card for its bestow cost is not casting it as a creature.
September 30, 2013 9:38 p.m.
carpecanum says... #5
The card says "enchantment creature" so you can treat it as either or both up until it specifically says you cannot (AFTER casting it for its bestow cost it becomes an aura).
September 30, 2013 9:41 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #6
Whether or not it's legal to cast a card is checked at the time you start the casting process, meaning the moment right before you announce it and move it to the stack. The decision about Bestow doesn't get made until a couple steps into the process, when you make choices about whether and how to apply alternative costs. At the time you would announce the spell it's still a creature (well, it's always a creature card no matter what, it's just not always a creature or a creature spell), so Karador will allow you to cast it from the graveyard.
As a counterexample: the reason Crucible of Worlds doesn't allow you to cast Zoetic Cavern from the graveyard as a face-down creature is because the way Morph works requires you to turn the card face down before the spell gets announced. The face down card isn't a land card anymore, so Crucible can't do anything with it.
September 30, 2013 9:42 p.m.
Yes, Karador specifies creature cards, not creature spells. The bestow card is a creature until it's cast, which means that Karador lets you cast the spell, and bestow doesn't specify it needs to be from your hand. It's similar to the way that Prophet of Kruphix lets you cast bestow'd creatures at instant speed.
September 30, 2013 9:42 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #8
Hmm at least i feel less dumb now seeing how i get answers on both sides. Not sure i'll be right but i choose to believe i can cast bestow from my grave. I just hope someone have the exact ruling so i can bring evidences when my playgroup will tell me i can't cast it....
September 30, 2013 10:01 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #9
There's no single rule covering this, but it does come out of a combination of other rules. Here's a rough summary:
- Rule 601.2 says you follow the spell casting steps a-h in order
- Rule 601.2a is the first step, announcing the spell and moving it to the stack
- Rule 601.2b is the second step, where (among other things) you make choices about alternative costs
- Rule 702.102a explains how Bestow works with respect to the spell casting process; it makes the spell an Aura spell if you choose to cast it with the Bestow cost in the step described by 601.2b
Datestamp says... #1
I don't see why not. The Bestow ability is on a creature card, so it appears to be a legal action.
September 30, 2013 8:31 p.m.