If i play forerunner of the empire followed by polyraptor would i create endless copies due to the two abilities?
Asked by Carriemartin88 7 years ago
Wondering if there is a limit on how may times each ability would trigger due to polyraptors enrage ability and forerunners ability.
Gidgetimer says... #2
Please link all cards in your question using double brackets.
As pskinn01 said forerunner would usually kill itself after you used its trigger three times. If you can somehow stop it from killing itself (indestructible, protection from red, and buff its toughness are the ways that come to mind off hand) you can create as many raptors as you like. You do however have to set a number so "endless" and "infinite" are not really valid.
February 3, 2018 10:27 a.m.
Like stated above by both. It's not endless/Infinite, unless other cards are in play.
What it would look like is.
Play Polyraptor.
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all.
Forerunner of the Empire 1/2 Polyraptor 5/4
Polyraptor Ability activates Creating Polyraptor Clone(1)
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all.
Forerunner of the Empire 1/1 Polyraptor 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/4
Polyraptor & Polyraptor Clone(1) Ability activates Creating Polyraptor Clone (2) & Polyraptor Clone(3)
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (2)
Forerunner of the Empire 1/0 Polyraptor 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/4
Now is where it starts to vary depending on what else is in play.
A. Nothing else is in play.
Forerunner of the Empire 1/0 (dies) Polyraptor 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/4
Polyraptor / Polyraptor Clone(1) / Polyraptor Clone(2) / Polyraptor Clone(3) Ability activates Creating Polyraptor Clone (4) / Polyraptor Clone(5) / Polyraptor Clone(6) / Polyraptor Clone(7)
Polyraptor 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(4) 5/5 Polyraptor Clone(5) 5/5 Polyraptor Clone(6) 5/5 Polyraptor Clone(7) 5/5
End of chain.
B. If You have indestructible red cards It is In finite, but self implodes.
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (3)
Forerunner of the Empire (Indestructable) Polyraptor 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/3
Polyraptor / Polyraptor Clone(1) / Polyraptor Clone(2) / Polyraptor Clone(3) Ability activates Creating Polyraptor Clone (4) / Polyraptor Clone(5) / Polyraptor Clone(6) / Polyraptor Clone(7)
***Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (4)
Forerunner of the Empire (Indestructable) Polyraptor 5/0(dies) Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(4) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(5) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(6) 5/4 Polyraptor Clone(7) 5/4
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (5)
Forerunner of the Empire (Indestructable) Polyraptor Clone(1) 5/0(dies) Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(4) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(5) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(6) 5/3 Polyraptor Clone(7) 5/3
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (6)
Forerunner of the Empire (Indestructable) Polyraptor Clone(2) 5/0(dies) Polyraptor Clone(3) 5/0(Dies) Polyraptor Clone(4) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(5) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(6) 5/2 Polyraptor Clone(7) 5/2
Forerunner of the Empire Ability activates doing 1 damage to all. In response to Polyraptor Clone (7)
Forerunner of the Empire (Indestructable) Polyraptor Clone(4) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(5) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(6) 5/1 Polyraptor Clone(7) 5/1
Polyraptor Clone(4) / Polyraptor Clone(5) / Polyraptor Clone(6) / Polyraptor Clone(7) Ability activates Creating Polyraptor Clone (8) / Polyraptor Clone(9) / Polyraptor Clone(10) / Polyraptor Clone(11)
Back to ***
And the cycle continues. Constantly leaving you with 4 Polyraptor monsters at 5/1 and the loop would be Endless, BUT you wouldn't win the match and neither would your opponent.
February 4, 2018 10:07 a.m.
ClockworkSwordfish says... #4
As a quick aside, the 'loop' would not be endless, since Forerunner of the Empire distinctly states that "you may have Forerunner of the Empire deal 1 damage to each creature." You could stop having it set off Polyraptor's enrage trigger at any time you want. A true infinite loop would be Polyraptor and AEther Flash.
February 4, 2018 2:16 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #5
So a couple of nitpicks and an actual problem with Aricardo's answer.
Nitpicks first just so that we clear up any confusion that may have been caused.
Forerunner of the Empire has no activated abilities. His ability to do damage is a trigger that has you make a choice to do the damage or not when it resolves.
Damage does not reduce toughness.
Now assuming that you always decline all Forerunner triggers if there is another Polyraptor trigger on the stack, the following is what happens.
Card enters and damage is dealt. (1 poly- 1 damage)
1 Polyraptor trigger. 1 token is made and damage is dealt. (1 poly- 2 damage 1 poly-1 damage)
2 Polyraptor triggers. 1 token is made and damage is declined. 1 token is made and damage is dealt. (1 poly- 3 damage, 1 poly- 2 damage, 2 poly- 1 damage)
This is the point that Forerunner would die and there would be no further damage triggers if you do not save him with pro-red, indestructible, etc.
4 Polyraptor triggers. 3 tokens are made and damage is declined. 1 token is made and damage is dealt. (1 poly-4 damage, 1 poly- 3 damage, 2 poly- 2 damage, 4 poly- 1 damage)
8 Polyraptor triggers. 7 tokens are made and damage is declined. 1 token is made and damage is dealt. (1 poly- 5 damage, 1 poly- 4 damage, 2 poly- 3 damage, 4 poly- 2 damage, 8 poly- 1 damage)
1 Polyraptor dies. 16 Polyraptor triggers. 15 tokens are made and damage is declined. 1 token is made and damage is dealt. (1 poly- 5 damage, 2 poly- 4 damage, 4 poly- 3 damage, 8 poly- 2 damage, 16 poly- 1 damage)
1 Polyraptor dies. 31 Polyraptor triggers. 30 tokens are made and damage is declined. 1 token is made and damage is dealt.
At this point I'm sure you understand the loop so I will give numbers for a few more iterations and then we can draw a conclusion.
2 die, 61 are made
4 die, 120 are made
8 die, 236 are made
16 die, 464 are made
31 die, 912 are made
As you can see you will always be losing some number, but that number will always be smaller than the number that are made. By changing which trigger you deal the damage off of you can make some other amount of Polyraptors instead of our Fibonacci-esque series where each number is the sum of the five previous numbers in the series. However this is the most efficient way to make as many raptors as possible as quickly as possible.
So as I said in my previous post, pick a number and that is how many raptors you make. But you do have to terminate the series at some point so that the game can progress.
pskinn01 says... #1
Forerunner kills itself after 3 triggers.
February 3, 2018 7:18 a.m.