Heartless Hide's damage

Asked by thewyzman 9 years ago

Does Heartless Hidetsugu's damage count towards:

1) Lifelink?

2) Doublers, such as Dictate of the Twin Gods? (killing players with one tap seems a little fishy)

It says deals damage.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1

Lifelink means that any damage dealt by the source causes its controller to gain that much life. Lifelink doesn't care about the reason for the damage; it applies to combat, abilities, and spells.

Damage doublers also work. Heartless Hidetsugu's ability checks each player's life total, then calculates an amount of damage to deal to that player. Damage-increasing effects apply at this time.

May 9, 2015 11:35 a.m.

thewyzman says... #2

So, for example:


I Hidetsugu, everyone dies? And I don't gain the lifelink trigger because I'm dead... but if I wasn't dead, then I would gain life equal to all the damage to opponents' life totals?

No wonder this guy is a poopyhead killmagnet.

May 9, 2015 11:58 a.m.

Colten_Lee says... #3

Why wouldn't you gain the life?? I thought lifelink was a static ability that didn't use the stack...I could be wrong.

May 9, 2015 1:17 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

Lifelink isn't a triggered ability anymore. That changed with the M10 rules update. You gain life at the same time damage is dealt.

May 9, 2015 1:21 p.m.

Colten_Lee says... #5

So you'd win in the above scenario?

May 9, 2015 1:25 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

Yes.

May 9, 2015 1:27 p.m.

sonnet666 says... #7

Mind that Heartless plus a damage doubler will only kill players with an even life total due to the fact that he rounds down. Players with an odd life total will be set to 1 life.

This is the basis of most Heartless EDH lists.

May 9, 2015 3:48 p.m.

thewyzman says... #8

I was discussing this at my LGS earlier today and as sonnet666 said, you'd want to have an odd-numbered life total to survive Hide's ability yourself, but with the lifelink, you're essentially absorbing your opponents life totals. Quite a few of us had some good laughs over the combos/possibilities/effects of such shenanigins.

Otherwise, lifegain only happens before damage if first strike is applied to it; or else lifegain and damage happen simultaneously, as Rhadamanthus described.

May 9, 2015 5:27 p.m.

thewyzman says... #9

Would Temur Battle Rage and other double-strike enablers work?

...or is the damage not considered combat damage?

May 9, 2015 5:44 p.m.

The lifegain never happens before damage with lifelink.

Also, ability damage is never combat damage. First strike and double strike have nothing to do with this damage.

May 9, 2015 6:02 p.m.

This discussion has been closed