Does Supernatural Stamina allow Phyrexian Dreadnought to return infinite times?

Asked by Andris_of_Naxos 1 month ago

Does Supernatural Stamina targeting Phyrexian Dreadnought allow it to return infinite times to the battlefield (and sac itself and return and sac itself and..)?

The rules perplex me a bit on the issue:

400.7. "An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are nine exceptions to this rule:"

400.7d "Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, “When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield”) can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone."

400.7h "If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object."

Caerwyn says... Accepted answer #1

As you noted, the rules state that once the Phyrexian Dreadnaught moves to a new area, it will be a new object with no memory of its prior existence.

Here's what that means: Once it moves to a new zone, it will be treated as if it is a 100% new item; that means the ability "when this creature dies...." that Supernatural Stamina confers will no longer be on the card.

The other rules you cite allow Supernatural Stamina to function--your Dreadnaught dies, which triggers the "when this creature dies..." ability; by the time that ability resolves, the Dreadnaught is already a new object in the graveyard. Still, the rules let the triggered ability it find the new object and take an effect on the new object. They do not revert the found object to its prior state; it still remains a new object with no memory of its prior existence.

Since the new Dreadnaught gets returned to the battlefield without remembering that it had Supernatural Stamina 's ability conferred on it, it will no longer have that ability. Thus, you will only get the Supernatural Stamina boon for the first dreadnaught--the one you initially targeted with the spell.

April 29, 2021 3:58 p.m.

Caerwyn. Thank you so much. I had actually built a deck around this non-combo. Foolish of me.. Again, you have my thanks.

April 29, 2021 4:01 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #3

Andris_of_Naxos - No problem, happy to help; sorry that your deck idea does not work. If it makes you feel better, I have seen a whole lot of other folks' deck ideas fall apart over the exact same issue, so you're far from alone.

April 29, 2021 4:03 p.m.

Polaris says... #4

The short answer is no, it does not. Phyrexian Dreadnought will enter the battlefield, its ability will immediately trigger to make you sac stuff. You can respond to the trigger with Supernatural Stamina so that when you sac Phyrexian Dreadnought, it comes back. However, it will just trigger and sac itself again and end up in the graveyard permanently this time.

The reason for this is the main rule 400.7 you quote here. Supernatural Stamina is not granting an ability to the Phyrexian Dreadnought card, it's giving it to the creature. The Phyrexian Dreadnought creature that enters the battlefield will be a new instance and will not have the ability "when this creature dies, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control" (it will also not have the +2/+0).

The other rules you quote here (400.7d specifically) just explain how the ability can work. When Phyrexian Dreadnought dies, it is no longer the creature that had the ability, but since the ability looks for it in the graveyard, it can still find the Phyrexian Dreadnought card that just died. That's what the rule means by finding it in another zone. When the Dreadnought comes back, it's a new creature that doesn't have the resurrection ability, so it can't come back multiple times from that one effect. As far as the game is concerned, it's unrelated to the Dreadnought that died. Any spells or abilities targeting the original Dreadnought will fizzle, it won't be in combat even if it was attacking or blocking before it died, it has summoning sickness, etc.

April 29, 2021 4:07 p.m.

Thank you as well Polaris. The key here I suppsoe is making the distinction between the card and the creature summoned by the card. A delicate point if one is not that familiar with the rules (though we should be obviously..).

April 29, 2021 4:18 p.m.

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