Does cost reduction include X costs?
Asked by Gamer7129 13 years ago
If I have an Animar, Soul of Elements with 5 +1/+1 counters on it, can I cast Apocalypse Hydra for RG and have it enter with 5 counters?
KorApprentice says... Accepted answer #2
As per the sequence of events when determining the total cost of a spell, you can indeed. Rules 601.2a-601.2h describe the actions taken to 'cast' a spell. More specifically, 601.2b deals with alternate costs and [X] mana symbols and 601.2e describes the actions taken to determine the total cost. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:
601.2b If the spell is modal the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.45), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as its being cast such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs (see rules 117.8 and 117.9), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2e). A player cant apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as its being cast (such as an X in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost he or she intends to pay. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes Phyrexian mana symbols, the player announces whether he or she intends to pay 2 life or the corresponding colored mana cost for each of those symbols. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the players options when making these choices.
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be 0. It cant be reduced to less than 0. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes locked in. If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
Pay special attention to the bold. Basically, you apply cost reductions after announcing what you intend to pay for [X]. So yes, Animar, Soul of Elements can reduce the cost of Apocalypse Hydra .
November 2, 2011 9:59 p.m.
TheRealPigeons says... #3
So I could play an oath of ajani on turn 2, then play nissa, steward of elements on turn three and name X as 2, meaning I'd only pay 3 mana total, but nissa would enter with 2 loyalty?
April 28, 2017 5:30 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Oath of Ajani
Nissa, Steward of Elements
Correct.
In the future, please start a new thread rather than responding to an old one. Old threads aren't bumped, so likely only the people still subscribed to the old thread will see it.
April 28, 2017 7:15 p.m.
TheRealPigeons says... #5
Thanks for the answer, and sorry about that. I just googled the question and this was the first result that came up. Didn't notice it was five years old until I had posted.
Epochalyptik says... #1
Yes. Cost reductions are applied after the total cost of the spell has been calculated. You cast Apocalypse Hydra , naming X as 5. Then, the reduction takes the mana cost of the spell from 5RG to RG. You then pay RG.
November 2, 2011 9:55 p.m.