Does River Kelpie + Spark Double + Sac Outlet combo?
Asked by Sultai_Sir 3 years ago
So, this came up in my Marchesa deck. Does Spark Double reset the -1-1 counter on River Kelpie, leading to infinite draw/ETB/LTB triggers, or am Iooking at this wrong?
also important to note that you wouldn't get the etb from a Spark Double copying a River Kelpie if you cast Spark Double from your hand.
October 6, 2020 12:17 p.m.
Tylord2894 says... Accepted answer #3
Yes, this does create an infinite loop.
You can sacrifice the copy of River Kelpie to your sac-outlet. This will trigger Persist for the Spark Double of River Kelpie. The Double will come back and need to copy the Kelpie again. At which point, the new copy of the Kelpie will have a +1 counter (from the Double's ability) and a -1 counter (from Persist). These will be removed since they cancel each other out. Now, you're back where you started.
The key thing is that a creature with a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter will have them removed when state-based actions are checked (rule below).
Hope this helps!!
122.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.
October 6, 2020 12:26 p.m.
Tylord2894: thanks for clearing this up for me as well. the way the question was worded, i honestly thought he was trying to use Spark Double to put the counter on the original River Kelpie and so i didn't even think about simply sacrificing the Spark Double
October 6, 2020 12:31 p.m.
Sultai_Sir in the future, please don't mark your own response as the answer. you should have marked Tylord2894's answer as the correct one, not only as a courtesy to them, but also so other users who read this thread can easily find the answer
October 6, 2020 12:33 p.m.
Sultai_Sir says... #7
That was a misclick, I just changed the answer. Sorry for the misconception.
Pyrra says... #1
Spark Double does nothing to the permanent it copies. the original stays exactly how it is.
October 6, 2020 12:16 p.m.