Does a Perilous Myr equipped with Basilisk Collar deal deathtouch?
Asked by Kalani 14 years ago
Okay so if you have a Perilous Myr and it's equipped with Basilisk Collar and it dies, get's sac'd, whatever, is the 2 damage that it deals deathtouchy?
SardonRayne says... #2
The answer would defiantly be no.
The reason is because the requirement for Perilous Myr 's effect requires it to be put into a graveyard, only after it's placed there can you choose a target for it's damage. At this time the Basilisk Collar 's effects would have ended because it is no longer equipped to the myr.
March 7, 2011 4:03 p.m.
BrownDog5117 says... Accepted answer #3
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes...
I think the damage dealt from the graveyard checks the last "condition" of Perilous Myr . So it sees that the myr was in fact death touched and lifelinked because it was equipped with Basilisk Collar , so it would in fact be deathtouch and lifelink damage.
March 7, 2011 4:33 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #4
BrownDog5117 got it right.
The check is called Last Known Information or LKI. The check is used when an object that no longer exists, because it left the zone, tries to do an action. It most frequently refers to objects on the battlefield that have already left it, i.e. Perilous Myr .
So the two damage that is dealt would be deathtouch and lifelink. The same combo can be applied to Magma Phoenix for devastating results.
March 7, 2011 6:25 p.m.
DarkReject says... #5
If you swing with it then yes, but if it dies, then no. Because the equipment is no longer attached to the creature when it dies.
March 7, 2011 6:35 p.m.
BrightGreenLine says... #6
Repeating BrownDog5117 and thaimaishuu, Perilous Myr will indeed have Deathtouch and Lifelink when its graveyard trigger resolves.
From the Comprehensive Rules:
112.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
Since Perilous Myr had deathtouch and lifelink when it was put into the graveyard then the trigger will remember that, and you'll deal 2 lifelink and deathtouch damage to a source of your choice. The equipment is never actually detached prior to the creature entering the graveyard, so much as the permanent it was attached to ceased to exist.
March 7, 2011 6:42 p.m.
Thank you BrightGreenLine. I've been looking for a specific rule to quote for this for a while now.
March 7, 2011 6:58 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #8
Now consider Magma Phoenix + Basilisk Collar , and a crowded battlefield.
March 7, 2011 7:26 p.m.
I'm not sure if that rules quote is relevant, here, though. My gut says that the damage is still lifelink / deathtouch, but as per the rule quoted, perilous myr's damage triggers once it is already in the graveyard, so the myr is in the graveyard, and not equipped, when the trigger goes onto the stack.
The question is: when does the equipment become unattached? when lethal damage is dealt? when the card hits the graveyard? and if it happens when it hits the graveyard, what order do events happen in? is it unequip, then ETG trigger, or the reverse?
March 7, 2011 7:35 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #10
Equipment is never unequipped. You may be thinking of something like Turn to Slag . In which case the equipment would be destroyed during the resolution of this spell and before the creature, such as Perilous Myr hits the graveyard.
March 7, 2011 9:07 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #11
landot has a point. So here's this, which is a bit more specific:
"702.2e If an object changes zones before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had deathtouch."
So the Myr's last known information was that it had deathtouch, and thus its 2 damage is dealt with the deathtouch property.
March 7, 2011 9:27 p.m.
"Equipment is never unequipped" huh? At some point, the equipment stops being attached to the creature as the creature moves from the battlefield to the graveyard. I know this is true, because when the creature is on the battlefield, it can have equipment attached to it; when it is in the graveyard, it can't. Sometime between the two zones, the equipment must, therefore, 'fall off'.
March 7, 2011 9:42 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #13
I think BrightGreenLine quoted it best. What you should get out of that wall of text is:
1) Triggers are independent of their source. Meaning they act separately and may not fizzle just because something happens to the source.
2) Some triggers will use the source to perform an action. In this case, a check is made using the source as reference.
3) If the source is no longer in the zone it was suppose to be in, LKI is used.
The equipment does not become unattached as the creature dies. It simply falls off when the creature ceases to exist. This is why LKI can be used to determine the moment it was alive that it was still equipped.
Also what is ETG? I cannot answer that question. That is new to me.
March 7, 2011 9:50 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #15
Ah, okay. Thank you, mafteechr.
I think the best way to put it is creature dies, equipment falls off, ETG, trigger happens. Note that the creature never sees the equipment fall off. It is long gone before that happens. Also this process does not use the stack, all of this is happening within one priority pass. So there is no way to respond in between the creature dying and trigger being put on the stack.
Hope that clears things up this go around. :]
March 7, 2011 10:57 p.m.
This question has been already answered before.
as a general rule:
whenever a permanent that leaves play has to deal damage, the game uses LKI to determine the type of damage dealt.
This is happening as the ability to deal damage refer to the object (perilous myr). An object exists only on the battlefield, in graveyard is only a card.
in this case, perilous myr had deathtouch and lifelink as the game last recalls (LKI = last known information).
this is why mortarpod and basilisk collar works.
March 8, 2011 8:28 a.m.
so if i attach grafted exoskeleton to magma phoenix and when magma phoenix enters into the graveyard all players and creatures get 3 poison counters and 3 minus counters rite?
March 13, 2011 9:35 a.m.
thaimaishuu says... #18
If Magma Phoenix was equipped with Grafted Exoskeleton when it dies, all creatures will receive 3 -1/-1 counters and all players will receive 3 poison counters.
popeyroach says... #1
I would say no because when it dies the basilisk collar is unequipped and when perilous myr enters the graveyard it no longer has deathtouch if you had used virulent swipe then the 2 damage would be deathtouchy
March 7, 2011 4:01 p.m.